Capitalism II

Just finished watching Trading Places again. I love that movie mainly 'cause it deals with the stock market and the bit at the end is the best part, when they make Duke and Duke broke, and reading the IMDB boards I know understand how they made them bankrupt and made themselves rich at the same time. And that is the same reason I LOVE Capitalism II. I so so so so wish a developer would remake the game. It was great back then and is still great now, although somewhat dated. Not only could you run a business empire in retail, but you could choose to either become the manufacturer , retailer or after making a bit of cash, just play the stock market more. Apparently it was so accurate that Universities used it when teaching people business and economics. No game so far has come close to beating Capitalism II. I enjoy the stock trading aspect in it. I have tried the stock trading in Railroads, Sid Meier’s game but it’s no where near as good. A-Train had an enjoyable stock market section, but the subsequent A-Trains stayed in Japan and never made it to Europe :frowning:

I just wish someone would code a quality, brilliant successor to Capitalism II.

Hint, Hint.

I saw your piece in PC Format this month Cliff :slight_smile:

Have you ever thought of writing the Hong Kong-based company that developed Cap II? I don’t know if they’re still around–that Joan of Arc first person strategy game they did was a prominent failure. But still, it’s worth checking.

universities have used Democracy too :smiley:

And they might use a Capitalism 2 type game if you made it. Hint, hint :slight_smile:

Although I know you lack the graphic artists, so that would be a problem. Not sure if a plain stock market program would be as interesting as Capitalism 2. Capitalism 2 had both sides of the business so it was great.

I really enjoyed Capitalism, Capitalism + and Capitalism 2 as well.
It’s the greatest non professionnal business simulation in the world…

I enjoyed as well Transport Tycoon :slight_smile:

Anyway, I don’t know if this is feasible… to put it simply ^^
It’s really a huge amount of work to make it relevant.

I liked “Republic, The Revolution” and think they are some ideas to take from it ^^

Anyway, thank you for your games, cliffski.

Ooh Ooh, I did some work on that :smiley:

I played CAP2 a bit, but was dissappointed with the AI and game system.

I found it to be a very easy game. From a gaming systems point of view, you quickly reach a threshold in the game where if you can cross, then you become economically unstoppable, since you get a snow balling/compounding interest affect. Thus, the system behaves in a “divergent” fashion. Get an advantage and the advantage will grow even bigger. In many grand strategy games it goes like: make big economy -> have big military -> able to conquer and grow -> grow -> get big economy -> have big military -> conquer. The same was true in CAP2. You got into high end electronics by setting up a powerhouse research facility and get notebooks and handhelds before anyone else. Also, you corner the vertical supply chain. At which point, the money coming in is huge. Now, despite whatever business problem the scenario posed … any problem or challenge could be addressed with tons of cash.

So, the game had two problems as I see it:

(1) Weak AI (not very competitive) … the AI was for atomosphere as opposed to brutal play.

(2) Divergent system which reinforced success with more success.

Note, that unlike in many games the real world has both convergent and divergent tendenicies. For example, in a military campaign. I break through the enemy’s front line and I strike deep into his territory. Now, such an attack may give you a divergent affect even strengthen you further and weaken your enemy further. However, a convergent affect is possible in that my supply lines get streched causing me delays, increased use of supplies, and greater vulnerability to counter-attack.

So, convergent behavior in games basically means that success brings more challenges and difficulty. Such games end up being interesting to play throughout an entire gaming session and not just up to the tipping point. Divergent game systems are only fun up to the threshold. From there continued play is anti-climatic. The only way to really enjoy such systems is have very short gaming sessions or end the game early or apply a set of house rules that mitigates the most divergent factors and exploits.

Some games with very good balance and convergence: 1830 and Tropico 1.

I was really excited by the concept of Cap2, since I wanted a serious business simulation after the entertaining play of RTD (Sid Meier’s Railroad Tycoon Deluxe). However, Cap2 was just too easy to beat. It would have required a whole manifesto of house rules to keep it interesting throughout an entire game. Sigh …

Yeah, I just play capitalism as a race with myself to see how fast I can expand, and how fast I can totally destroy the competition :slight_smile:

Though, it did have online play, so you could have gotten some competition that way perhaps.

As for a grand strategy game that actually stays difficult, try Europa Universalis III.

Sorry for a 2 month bump. But I would really like to see another game like Cap2. The only problem is that it is probabley way to much to do for one person. I would also like another game like Tropico 1 (dammit wish I had the CD here right now :frowning: ). If it is at all possible, please make one of thoose :slight_smile:

Yeah i was a huge fan of the game, sure it was easy, but if they made an online variant it would be interesting

An MMOSG, could be intresting. :slight_smile:

A Positech business sim will probably look and play more like Dem 2 than Cap 2 ( which isn’t necessarily a bad thing :wink: ). Anyways, Enlight has made it known in their Cap 2 forum their working on the game again - link