Country ideology/quality of life indepedence

It should be possible to make very conservative, very capitalist and very religious country, that has low or no poverty, and relatively high income in poor wealth class.
Essentially USA 1950 – 1970 or something like that.

By the way is there something like church charity?
For example Sikh temples giving free food or something like that.


Here is political compass with 4 independent axes https://8values.github.io/
And more detailed with 9 axes: https://9axes.github.io/ (they should have make it 10 axes – split cultural and technological progressivism in two separate axes).
How many of them could be modelled in game?

1 Like

There is a link in the game between religious membership and charitable giving. Basically the more religious people you have, the higher charity will be. (There are some other inputs to charity as well though).

Can be this reinforced by some pro-religious policies?

There are lots of pro-religious policies in the game :smiley:

I hope conservative and religious aren’t as joined at the hip as they are D3.

1 Like

Cool, still I think creationism VS evolution should be changed to secularism of education or something like that.

Also are all spiritual people counted as religious?
Spirituality is bit broader than organized religion.


Hippies were pretty liberal in 1960’s - 1970’s :stuck_out_tongue:

Also conservatives are traditionalists AND authoritarians in this game it seems.
At least there is strong correlation between those.

Yeah, we have to make a LOT of simplifications in the game, so we do equate conservativism with some degree of authoritarianism, and also associate religion with certain attitudes, towards same-sex marriage, abortion and creationism most clearly. We also link conservatives with religion to an extent, in that people who are religious are more likely to be conservative and vice versa.

Obviously thats a huge simplification, but without it, things start to gets super-complex.

Have you put that together in a way that could ever be modded out? Religion is very problematic, but same sex marriage, abortion and creationism are such dated things to fuse to religion. There have been so many clear and vocal statements about evolution, female autonomy, and queer identity in modern faith.

In democracy 3, patriots were less married to conservatism than religious people were, it’s disheartening to hear you’ve copy-pasted that decision. I don’t say this to deny the wrongs of religious communities but rather because many of us have lived closely to those wrongs, and itch to see such institutions reformed and brought into the 21st century, even if it’s by some awkward half-measure.

Everything in the game will be 00% moddable, and should be configurable based on the country you are playing as well.
Its worth noting that this stuff VASTLY varies depending on the country. The social attitudes of a church of england vicar and dramatically different to a religious leader in Iran, for example, and we want the simulation to broadly represent religion globally.
During early access we expect to get a lot of country-specific feedback and ajust the simulation accordingly.

1 Like

I hope it’s easier to mod stuff out of the game rather than just adding more stuff in. The D3 mod tools didn’t accommodate that stuff at all.

Creationism in schools should be a dilemma, not a policy in my opinion. It’s pretty much a settled issue now, and it was highly parochial to the area where it was an issue. A dilemma that might show up fits the issue much, much better than a policy every single country needs to have a position on.

1 Like

Creationism is likely settled in the UK, and maybe the US, but not everywhere. I can imagine there are quite a few countries around the world where its an ongoing thing. But more generally, the policies in democracy are supposed to be more representative than specific, so that policy can be thought of as more generally the extent to which science or religion goes unchallenged in schools.

At an extreme end, a pro-science curricuum could teach unambiguously that the bible is just flat out wrong, and nonsense, and shouldnt be relied on for anything. Most western democracies stop short of that position :smiley:

At an extreme end, a pro-science curricuum could teach unambiguously that the bible is just flat out wrong, and nonsense, and shouldnt be relied on for anything. Most western democracies stop short of that position

So this is pretty much is what I suggested by renaming creationism VS evolution policy.
Essentially it would be Religious Teaching or something like that:
Max science: All religion and spirituality is pure bullcrap, effectively creating atheist state over time - atheist education.

Somewhere on science side: religion/spirituality act as glue (churches being places where people can meet or so) and is fine for explaining metaphysical/immaterial world.
Essentially being ethics/philosophy with spirits and gods.
This would be secular education.

Somewhere on religion side: Bible or other holy scripture is source of truth (but shouldn’t be taken literally) and religion explains a lot.
This would be religious education.

Extreme religious side: Only religion can explain stuff. Nice way to damage Education and Technology stats unless you try hard to counter-act its effects.
Nice way to max out conservative and religious membership.
This would be fundamentalist education.

This way I would keep in on Secular level keeping conservatives, liberals and religious relatively happy with policy - always can pop some more education/technology policies.
Most countries seems to have Secular or Religious education.

If something in the game refers to something general, it should have a general name, not a specific one.

The only countries where it seems to still be a thing are Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

it all comes down to picking a name that makes sense to everyone. The problem with religious education is that implies only one direction (more or less religion), whereas we need a name (which is short) which evokes ‘teaching of science vs religion’.

Education secularization or something like that.

I think the conversation around choosing between these two things as binaries is strange. More than half of history’s most renowned scientists have been fanatically devout. Darwin is fairly unique in that his science made him question his faith. Plenty of scientists have simply seen their discoveries as wonderous works of god, and plenty of religious states have welcomed scientific progress. Islamic golden age anyone?

The concept that religion somehow fundamentally erodes scientific understanding and educational effectiveness is what irks me here.

I feel like Democracy 3’s stance on religion was grounded in the common lib-right’s notion that religious freedom is a bad thing because religion’s sole cumulative effect is to stoke racial tension, undermine education, and promote strong regressive ideals. This was certainly the expectation of edgy nerd culture circa 2001, but we’re living in 2020 and there are gay imams in California changing the world.

If this game dares to ask how space colonisation, cloning, and the reversal of the climate catastrophe can be achieved, how on earth is cultivating a non-evil religious community beyond the imagination?

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Of course there are good and bad parts of religion.

Non-evil religious/spiritual community is possible, but like anything there could be more extreme stances for it.
Religion should be split from public space like government or education (secularism).
Just like capitalism it should be regulated.


Someone on latest video was annoyed, that conservatives are mixed with authoritarians on that political compass.
Also progressives and liberals are mixed too.

On original political compass its Libertarian/Authoritarian.

We could go bit radical and split compass into three or more independent bars.
There is 3D political compass:
https://sapplyvalues.github.io/
Economic Left/Right
Liberty/Authority
Progressivism/Conservatism
Liberals/Conservatives have tons of policies, that affect them.

This one is four dimensional: (includes nationalist/globalist too)
https://8values.github.io/

As a bonus: Nine dimensional political compass.
https://9axes.github.io/

1 Like

Religion should be regulated??? What do you mean by that?

Giving religious freedom, but expelling it out of public places
Essentially Nordic style secularism, not theocracy, or atheism.

1 Like

That’s a fair model. I also think there’s a vital point to be made about upholding standards of religious doctrine. Religious freedom is a beautiful thing, but institutions like Westboro Baptist’s Church should be made an example of.

Free speech that aims to remove the freedoms of others does not deserve an equal platform.