Kudos - This should be looked at as a success!

Just wanted to say that I read about the game (GameTunnel.com), which ended up leading me to the site. I read about it a bit more, downloaded the demo, and enjoyed it. So I purchased it. All I can say is, this is one of those games where I feel I spent my money and actually got something in return. The game is casual and great at the same time. It’s definately a “Sim” like game, but not a “Sims” like game. This game is very unique and seperates itself well from the others. In my opinion, this game actually has more to do with actual “living” than the other unmentionable series. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with a gimmicky ant farm disguised as a life simulator Cough the sims Cough. But I find much more value in this game, and that it is simply more thoughtful and thought provoking. So Kudos to you Cliffsky. Great job.

Oh, and if you’re not convinced, then just check out my extremely relevant yet highly intelligent post in the “Refund” thread:
positech.co.uk/newforum/viewtopi … c&start=15



Wow, I’m surprised… no posts disagreeing or agreeing with me… I’ll take that as a positive. The negative would have been me receiving hundreds of hate posts claiming that the original “Sims” is gods gift to gaming and how those people are hooked up to their computers intravenously. So I definately see this as a good sign. I believe most people are enjoying Kudos as much as I am. :slight_smile:



I wouldn’t be surprised if this is GameTunnels next game of the month. Definately a strong addition for game of the year though, especially with all of the additional features and contents being added and upgraded on a regular basis.

Oh alright, I’ll flame you if that’s what you want.

How dare you imply the Sims isn’t the greatest thing ever. The Sims does everything in my life from curing my baldness to getting me a vice-presidency at work after only one day working as a janitor to even ironing my clothes for me! You are just not worthy of the Sims or of my company. Good Day Sir!

Ok, seriously, the Sims is a different type of game. I do like to play the Sims, but it is definitely more of a tactical level game where you have much more micro-management whereas Kudos is definitely a high level strategic game. It appeals to a different type of mentality. With the Sims you have to basically sit for a good period of time because of loading time because otherwise it isn’t worth it. Kudos can be played for a few minutes and then put away until next time.

Don’t get me wrong Eddy, I don’t disagree with you, but I did play The Sims for a bit and (luckily) quickly realised that what I was actually doing was more like work than actual game play or even thinking at the level of game play. There are definately some neat ideas with regards to customizing your avatar and building your character, I just think these ideas are short lived and a little more on the gimmicky side… the main reason I believe this is because big game companies are more money hungry than they are creative. Had I created The Sims… well I’d be rich… :wink: Ok, aside from that, had I created the series I would have made updates and expansions available to the public in order to enhance the game and breath new life into the title. Instead what we have are a bunch of cleverly concealed modifications of the already existing gameplay mechanics with a semi-pseudo make-over. How many expansions are there anyway? Why not make them downloadable only? Hey this would save on costs and fees without “In your face” approach, and besides, it’s better for the environment. :stuck_out_tongue: Beyond all of that, it’s not so much the fact that they expect people to pay for these additions, I mean extra work has gone into making them right? Hasn’t it? Hmm… It’s the fact that charging people almost the same price as the original title is wrong when you’re actually only giving them a neat little add-on. Ok, so nothing said is really in regards to the actual gameplay of The Sims right? I guess the biggest issue is that none of these so called “Expansions” really make the game more engaging. There are people who are “hooked” to playing this game, kinda like crack. Same could be said about a lot of games, but I haven’t come across any other with so many expansions. Expansions that cost upward of the price of the original game. Obviously people have choices and they don’t have to buy anything they don’t want to… but I believe some of these developers prey on the weaker gamers knowing that they are addicted and will likely spend the money on additional expansions.

Ok, so does all of this mean that The Sims is a bad game? Nope, I just think people haven’t seen that there really isn’t much there once you get beyond the graphics and neat little gimmicks that the game has to offer. Micromanagement is what it’s all about, but there are only so many times that I want to read a book, go for a crap, clean my kitchen, or converse (if you can call it that) with the neighbors before it all seems samey. I mean this is supposed to be entertaining and fun, and it’s only my opinion, but I only find these things entertaining for so long and I definately won’t spend more money on an expansion pack just so I can pick out new furniture with my digital girlfriend.

I don’t expect anyone to agree with my point of view, everyone is entitled to their own, but I think these reasons are why I appreciate Cliffski’s Kudos that much more. :slight_smile:



I wasn’t flaming you, just having a little fun. That is one of my pet peeves about the Sims, especially after the last “expansion” was nothing more than objects and no changed gameplay. Next expansion I buy will be in the bargain bin because I was mightily annoyed.

Don’t believe people buy them to be honest. Its not brilliant game play enhancement for the cost.

It’s like adding different spells to Baldur’s gate, adding new levels to half life, it feels like one of the biggest scams in the computer game industry! The value for money isn’t there, but I suppose if people have the money to spend its up to them.

Yep, that’s the problem. And think about it, The Sims is THE #1 selling PC game of all time now. So with all of those hard cases who are convinced that they are living an alternate life you have them paying through the nose to get the next expansion. Again, people should enjoy the game if they do enjoy that type of gameplay, but why not make the expansions a digital download at reasonable price ($9.95 lets just say for shits and giggles). Obviously it’s about marketing and money making, and The Sims is a huge PC game Cash Cow. Good for Maxis / EA (Ok, so it’s mostly EA), unfortunately it still doesn’t mean that gameplay is evolving in any good or productive way from there end, they just have nicer homes and cars that’s all… Hey and in real life too… hmm, I wonder who is REALLY being played here? :wink:

It’s not that I dislike all of the Maxis Sim games, but Simcity used to be much more enjoyable, probably because there was more thought involved and even with a few sequels at least there weren’t 20 different expasion packs that allowed you to now build such mundane things as not just a hospital, but a hospital with a sick kids play ground in it. Besides, they would have boxed that idea up and sold it for $35 - $40 dollars had they thought of it before I did. :smiling_imp:

So without straying away from the real subject, I think the fact that Kudos is so involving without having the gimmicks of some of these other Sim games is what makes it charming in it’s own way, and enjoyable on a personal level. I don’t really like the term or the way that Casual Game is made into a new buzz word for the Indie market, I prefer the term Gradual Gameplay. Games that you can become engrossed in over time and enjoy more and more even if you start over. I think Kudos fits the catagory nicely.

Hey Cliff, don’t be afraid to use any of my quotes if you want, I won’t charge you for them… this time. :wink:

Just kidding around and enjoying the discussion though.



I’ll pipe in here. :slight_smile:

I downloaded the Kudos demo last night, and I’ll say, it is NOT a copy of The Sims (like I though it could be like). It is similar, in the same way Starshop Tycoon is like Star Control II or III.

Kudos is a core life simulation. While The Sims adds a lot more, as in building houses, Kudos allows you the control that you might get with The Sims after you spend 3X more money on all the expansion packs. (I don’t think Cliffski would like this, but…) Kudos seems like a “No-Frills” game, meaning you don’t get all the bells and whistles that you won’t use 90% of that you would get in a mass-marketed (and mass-advertised) game that costs two to three times just to start, but what it does have are the core basics that you would want in a life simulator. The Sims is a fully loaded Mercedes Benz while Kudos is a well-loaded Subaru. While both are reliable and good cars, do you really need the power-controlled rearview mirror defroster and automatic wipers on the headlights?

Now, I’m stopping with the comparison and onto the “IMO” part of Kudos. I’ve seen how active the forum is, and the great reviews, so I decided to download the demo last night.

I’d hate to say it, but I’m on the fence with it. While the gameplay is original and fun, I’m afraid it will lose it’s playability in a few weeks. I played 3 demo games last night, but the demo ends just as the game gets interesting (typical demo, good planning, Cliffski!!). You have enough time to just start qualifying for better jobs and just as your circle of friends is starting to expand out (come to think of it, you’re worse with your demos than Microsoft and Blizzard are! :smiling_imp: :laughing: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley: ).

I can see where the game could get addictive, but where does it end? I bought Starship tycoon a few months ago, and while it was a fun game, it lost it’s replayability after about a month and a half, there’s only so many ways you can build up a huge transport company (I’ve given some suggestions over on those forums before). I’m afraid that Kudos may go the same way (but who knows).

The things I really like about Kudos are the low system requirements. I like the fact that I can play this game on older systems (the only reason I didn’t get Dungeons and Dragons online is the fact that I was unwilling to spent $3,000 on a computer just so I could play the game). It’s not a resource hog, so I can also have a download going in the background, or burn a DVD or two while playing, or have a few chats over Trillian going and not have the game crash on me. I can also quickly load up the game in a few minutes so playing in 10-15 spare minutes is a reasonable idea, not like other games that take 5-10 minutes just to start.

The gameplay, yes, I do like it. I like the idea of a life-simulation game where I don’t have to worry about groceries, building and expanding a house, and whatnot, I can concentrate on what really counts in a life simulation, the life part. :slight_smile: I"m just afraid the replay value won’t last, but then again, if I can get 2-3 months out of it, then it’s worth it (per day, that’s less than Everquest and sometimes I lose interest in that game and don’t play for months!). (While I think about it, most game sonly keep me captivated for 2-3 months at most, except Civilization 3 and Everquest).

The price tag is good. $25US or about $12EU. Most games here start at about $30 for the cheap (bad) ones and good games can easily double that, and when you add in all the expansions (which seems to be the “in” thing now) you have to pay an extra $30-$40 every few months to keep up.

I know I’m missing a lot just by playing the demo (most importantly, life beyond 3 weeks). If I do end up buying the full version, be sure that after I’ve played it, I will post a review on it. :slight_smile:

(Maybe I will buy it, it’s been a long time since I was 20, so maybe re-living my life from back then to see where I could have gone will be a fun idea?)

That’s the unfortunate case of “expansions” these days. Sony has a new (bad) idea with a few of their “expansions”. Expand as little as possible while fixing bugs, so they’re charging you $30 for a patch to fix bugs in the last $30 “expansion” you bought from them.

I noticed that with the Sims, too. My wife loves the Sims, and I got her the Pets expansion pack (which did add a lot). I’m not buying any others until I see the complete game (which is available now, $40) for less than $30, preferably $25.

Cliffski / Positech doesn’t play that game. Here’s the game, have fun. He doesn’t charge us to want to continue playing it, in fact, it seems that he encourages modding the games and letting others play along with it. Who knows, if I do buy Kudos, maybe I’ll make a custom job that has no prerequisites, but pays $1,000,000 a year? :smiley:

Eh, I just bought it. Even if I get a few months out of it, I’ll consider it worth it.

Besides, I’m a sucker for small businesses. :smiley:

I like the constant updates and feedback that we get here, especially since we’re supporting an independent publisher instead of some marketing machine like The Sims. The demo is just enough to tantalize you which helps. I’m getting to the point where I won’t buy a game without a demo.

Ahh, good, this is getting interesting. :slight_smile:


Your points are well taken but I have a few more points regarding The Sims and other positive aspects of Kudos. As I mentioned before, The Sims as a game isn’t a bad idea, but if you actually think about it what do things like building a bigger house actually do? You need room for more furniture? A life partner? A family? After that where do you go? A bigger house, more expensive furniture, decorations, pets, parties… That’s great, but considering most of this stuff is supposed to involve other “Sims”, what sort of relationships can you have? Do you actually do things with your friends and family in the game? Honestly, no you don’t, you wait for them to do things with each other. Kudos, on the other hand, allows you to initiate actions within your relationships and also allows the people closest to you in the game to initiate there own actions and invite you to do things like go out to a bar or pizza parlor. Last but not least, it’s up to you whether or not you actually even want to go out and do these things and it actually affects the relationship in a positive or negative way but also gives you the opportunity to address your friends likes and dislikes with an easy to use interface that can actually hold complex results. Continuing a relationship in The Sims however seems like an arduous chore. I understand that some people like the way the Sims relationships play, but I really do find that there is much more depth to all of your relationships in Kudos and they can either grow or wither but you have ample opportunity to make more and even better friends. Obviously the relationships are only one aspect to both games, but they play a much more important and complex part in Kudos while still only being a part of the game.

Ok, now on to the second point. The actual development of The Sims and Kudos. Arguably there has obviously been a lot of work put into both titles (One man to think up The Sims and a team to bring it to Fruition), and a single person developing Kudos. Ok so this is really where the poing starts… Given the fact that The Sims is made by a team of developers, programmers, artists, etc… Have you ever actually tried contacting EA regarding any of there games and any bugs or problems you may be having with the game? When they contacted you I’m sure they sent you the generic and impersonable “Problem Form” to fill out. Sounds simple, but what you get back as a reply after filling out the form are directions to call there 1-900 number which is a headache waiting to happen. Wish I could say I’m being sarcastic, unfortunately this is from experience and if you’d like I could also include links to forums actually flaming EA and there lack of customer service.

Positech developer (Cliff) has an active community in the forums here where you can mention any problems you might be having with any of the games he’s developed and it’s easy to see that he actively participates in the online community and tries to provide a solution and address any problems in a timely fashion. This is one of the great things about most indie developers (especially the ones that work alone or with very little help) they really care about what they’ve released.

The significance of the last point is, Cliff is all alone, and I’m sure that he is very busy and has a life just like the people at EA do, the big difference is he’ll take the time to actually get back to you. He provides actual customer service.

Last but not least, there have been a lot of updates to the game and with each new update there have been all kinds of small but interesting and significant additions to the game. We’re even given the ability to Mod parts of the game to a degree and beyond that, if you want Cliff will check the mod out and make it available to everyone if he feels it’s good enough.

I guess I’m just looking at the big picture beyond just the game itself, but I think this affects whether or not the game is worth being played or more importantly purchased. For these reasons (and the others that I’ve mentioned) I believe that as a whole, even though Kudos may seem smaller, it is in fact deeper ultimately making the experience better.



Jesus Johnny Boy you write alot… After reading that I almost cracked out laughing.

You can’t compare the sims and kudos people! They are different games!

I agree! I don’t see any similarity in them at all. One is graphically based and the other is text/menu based. They are completely and utterly different. I have both, but I wouldn’t ever dither over which one to play, because I’d be in a mood for one or the other, not both. Besides, when I want a Sims-like game, I just play UnReal World, which is heaps better!!!

Good, detailed comparisons may make you laugh, but quite a few of us enjoy them, and respect the people who write them well. Even if we don’t necessarily agree with them. :slight_smile:

You appear to be saying no comparisons are ever possible, because everything, after all, is different from everything else. :smiley: Personally, I only find one similarity between The Sims and Kudos: both are “life management” games. But let him have his say. He’s not hurting anyone else by doing so.

Just expressing my opinion Firewolf. :slight_smile: Unfortunately you haven’t given much of an argument though. You definately can compare The Sims and Kudos, just like you could compare StarShip Tycoon and Privateer (obviously you’d have to have played them both in order to compare them). I don’t see a problem with disagreeing with what I or other people have to say, you can like The Sims and Kudos at the same time or on different levels, but that’s not an issue of mine. I was just stating that [b]I[/b] liked Kudos more than The Sims and thought that Kudos was better, and I believe I gave decent examples of why [b]I[/b] felt it to be a better game. I think I’ve also stated that I just don’t like The Sims much as a game for numerous, but legitimate, reasons. I think I would be in the wrong if I had never played The Sims and just based my opinions on screenshots or what other people have told me about the game, but that isn’t the case. None of this however, means that anyone reading this has to agree with me but perhaps it will peak other peoples interest and just maybe there are others out there that enjoy Kudos as much and for exactly the same reasons I do. It doesn’t really matter, you’re definately not going to enjoy either game without trying them. At least now that I’ve given my reasons and made my comparisons, I can make a recommendation. I guess the simplest way I can put it is like this, given that The Sims is so popular and considering it’s limitations (meaning these are just video games, not real life), it would be a shame if people who enjoy games in general but especially people who enjoy strategy/simulation type games did not give Kudos a try by at least downloading the free demo, because it has it’s own unique gameplay, ease of use, and charm, without pretending to be The Sims or any other game.

As for writing a lot, well I’ll try to cut back just for you Firewolf, but I can’t promise anything. :stuck_out_tongue: The life of a game critic means much to write, not enough time to write it. :unamused:



Being able to gamble and even play a mini match-3 game are great features that add extra play value to the game. And once again, of course this is all based on personal preference but these are great additions to an already unique game. On top of that the updates and patches keep coming out faster than a roadrunner on speed. I really appreciate all of the work and effort that has been put into this game. It’s a rare thing to find developers (mainstream and indy alike) who are as passionate about what they’ve created these days.

Keep up the great work Cliffski!

Meh, they’re not the same game.

The Sims was a 8) idea that got hijacked by mass-marketing and has become far too complex and time-consuming to be :smiley: .

I’ve played the demo and its exactly what I suspected it would be. I’ve actually applied for a credit card just so I can buy this damn thing. It’s what I’ve been waiting for. I used to play a demo of Uplink, and this really reminds me of that. You click stuff and learn. There aren’t any gimmicks to get in the way, the more you click, the more it makes sense. You really are creating your own unique thing, without any bloody Maxis input.

This is story driven, in the “create it yourself” kind of way. When I play the Sims, I use cheats and mods just so I can get it the way I want, but even then, there is far too much in the way. I downloaded something just to make them STOP playing that damn kicky bag game. :exclamation:
Why so hard? Usually what happens in the Sims is that I make a family, spend ages creating each person and a background story, then put them in a house, then when I hit GO the whole thing just gets tedious. [Ps, I seriously don’t care about money, not that I’m paying 100 a week for games, but if its great and I’ll really enjoy it it’s worth the price tag.]
So, I think the Sims is a good idea gone wrong. This is much closer to how a life-sim should be. Basically people want to be creative and have an outlet for all their dreams and passions. There are so many things in Kudos that I always wanted.

In real life, I’m only one game year in. I’m only 21… I could just use this to test certain ideas for my future. :open_mouth: Or is that too freaky? [yes]

POint is, I actually can. :smiling_imp:

You’re absolutely right, I agree with you libelle, they’re not the same game. The real point is that even though the two games play out differently, both games utilize the same method for controlling the game, and overall, the objectives can be very similar. It’s within these bounds that games can be compared and that means that there is an array for which they can be compared. The definitions of similar and same are completely different from one another and by definition you cannot compare something that is the same to itself, because no matter what it’s called or what you name it, it is still in fact just a copy of itself. When you take something that is similar and it falls within those bounds or the array that I mentioned then you can in fact compare two seperate and distinguishable items with one another. :open_mouth: <yeah, that’s how I feel>

In otherwords, if you get what I’m saying then please let me know, because I’d really like to understand what the hell it is I just said!! :question: :unamused:

Aside from all of that mumbo jumbo, it’s great that you enjoy the game and if you enjoyed the demo that much then wait until you get the full game, I’m sure you’ll be surprised by some of the extra features and mini-games found (and hidden) within Kudos. There really is so much to do and not enough time to do them all, at least not in just one play thru. So good luck with obtaining your credit card and hopefully you’ll be able to pick up the full game in no time.