Lethality vs Survivability

Just reposting your ship, will test it in the campaign.

name = f c buff 6cl mml mk1
guiname = F C BUFF 6CL MML MK1
hull = Federation Buffalo Cruiser hull

0 = cruiser_laser,
1 = cruiser_laser,
2 = cruiser_laser,
3 = cruiser_laser,
4 = cruiser power III,
5 = cruiser_laser,
6 = cruiser powered armor,
7 = cruiser_armour V,
8 = cruiser shield reflective,
9 = cruiser shield fastrecharge,
10 = cruiser_engine V,
11 = cruiser_engine V,
12 = cruiser crew IV,
13 = cruiser_laser,
14 = cruiser megatonmissile,
15 = cruiser power II,
16 = cruiser_engine V,
17 = cruiser_repair,

Ramcat, have you experimented with Rebel Missile fleets much? My normal (and what will end up being my combat fleet in the campaign) is a long range missile fleet on tight formations. I’ve been experimenting with the build i posted, and w/out FT to mess things up (as if i’m launching a raiding party, i’ll have FT calc’d to occupy/destroy enemy FT) as long as there are 4, they’ll do at LEAST 1.5times as much damage as they take.

I’ll try that ship out with my fleet in a bit, although honestly I tend to use Fast Recharge (which in theory are slightly stronger then shield 2, as they regrow faster) or reflective shields, although more often then not BOTH are even better then one or the other.

I do have a question concerning mods and the campaign. Will we be able to use moded content in the campaign? As i have a few ideas on large-fleet doctrine used to defend bases, and want to use a mod-made Dreadnought for it.

Some say the world will end in fire, Others say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire,
I hold with those that favor fire.

But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate
to say that for destruction, ice is also great
and would suffice.

-Robert Frost

Truly an applicable quote

This is a Rebel ship I captured - highly lethal:

name = r c val cl mk1
guiname = R C VAL CL MK1
hull = Rebel Valkyrie Cruiser

0 = cruiser_engine V,
1 = cruiser_engine V,
2 = cruiser_engine V,
3 = cruiser_laser,
4 = cruiser shield II,
5 =
6 = cruiser_laser,
7 = cruiser_laser,
8 = cruiser_laser,
9 = cruiser_laser,
10 = cruiser_laser,
11 = cruiser shield fastrecharge,
12 = cruiser crew II,
13 = cruiser power III,
14 = cruiser power,

I modified it and it has better survivability:

name = r c val cl mk2
guiname = R C VAL CL MK2
hull = Rebel Valkyrie Cruiser

0 = cruiser_engine V,
1 = cruiser_engine V,
2 = cruiser_engine V,
3 = cruiser_laser,
4 = cruiser shield II,
5 = cruiser_armour V,
6 = cruiser_laser,
7 = cruiser_laser,
8 = cruiser_laser,
9 = cruiser_laser,
10 = cruiser_laser,
11 = cruiser shield fastrecharge,
12 = cruiser crew II,
13 = cruiser power III,
14 = cruiser power,

But building a fleet of these proved to be futile, they inevitably meet the R-P-S fleet that can beat them. These Fed ships are my line ships and have proven to have the most durrability I know how to build.

name = f c pnthr ffm mk1
guiname = F C PNTHR FFM MK1
hull = Federation Panther Cruiser hull

0 = cruiser_targetpainter,
1 = cruiser fastmissile,
2 = cruiser fastmissile,
3 = cruiser fastmissile,
4 = cruiser_ecm shock,
5 = cruiser_armour V,
6 = cruiser_beamlaser,
7 = cruiser shield reflective,
8 = cruiser crew II,
9 = cruiser_engine V,
10 = cruiser power III,
11 = cruiser power III,
12 = cruiser shield fastrecharge,
13 = cruiser_ecm beam,
14 = cruiser_defence laser,

This is what I predicted would dominate campaign fleets. And the ship I posted is that with as much fighter survivability I can put in it. I build that ship as much as I can.

There are really only two other ship designs I use (besides frigates).

A tank.

And a carrier/AA ship.

I actually build a shape to my fleet (and lock them into place VERY tightly with formations.) My main fleet is modeled after the Defense of Caspin IV map which, since GSB isn’t out for mac’s steam and i won’t pirate the mac copy despite owning the game, means you’ll have to wait to see the build of the ships I use in it. However, in general i use a FT for anti FR and FT purposes, designed as a pure dog-fighter. Speed being the top goal for a dual-laser fighter, i go with 2 lower level FT engines over a stronger one and a power plant.
F designates Fighters.
x’s designate the enemy fleet, and show how I use a single decoy to manipulate the bulk of the enemy fleet to come at me on the axis perpendicular to my approach.
M’s are my main combat ships, designed along the “wall of battle” to give them maximum time in the missile engagement envelopes to do maximum damage to incoming enemies… As it stands i normally use either pure Cruiser Missile, pure Fast missile, or mostly fast with 2-3 ships of pure Multiple-Warhead and the back line of Cruiser Missile’s for a bit of extra reach and punch. I’m considering making what i consider the “ideal” missile, that is at the same time NOT unbalanced. I judge missiles on 3 critera: Firepower, Throw, and Penetration. Firepower is purely how hard they hit. While Megaton Missile’s are the king their, the slow reload times, slow speed, and poor penetration make them unideal. The short range is just icing on the cake. The Multiple Warhead Missile is I would consider the next worst, with good range, throw and penetration, but it’s flight speed isn’t quite as high as i’d like, and the firepower per warhead is somewhat lacking. My second favorite is actually my most used, the Fast Missile Launcher. With a decent range, second highest reload rate, and fastest movement speed, it can penetrate well, has a good throw (throw meaning how many missiles it puts up in the air in a given duration) and does decent damage. The best missile imo is the Cruiser missile, since it has a high reload rate and the longest range of any of the un-moded missiles. That said, the flight speed isn’t as high as i’d like, meaning i run predominantly Fast Missiles. However, once I get my hands on GSB full again, this will be re-evaluated. This hull is normally the Fenrir, although in the past I have used Valhalla’s for this role.
C is the corners of my wall. Good shields (1 turbo, 1 fast recharge and 1 high resistance), and decent armor (3 pieces of either power armor or cruiser lightweight armor), these are a mix of PD and AF, with a Tractor beam, 2 Cruiser Defense Lasers, and 3 Point Defense turrets. This ship will normally have a ECM shield on it, to prevent my anti-missile shield from being effective. This is normally a Minutaur or Valhallah Cruiser.
The W’s are just my shield wall. 3 shields, 3 or 4 armor, an advanced repair and an armor repair, with all but one hardpoint as Point Defense. The last one is a Cruiser Defense Laser. These are the main defense line, using the Corner’s tractors to slow FT or FR enough for either the defense lasers or the missile ship (or Fill’s) missile’s to kill them.
A, or Anchor. Depending on the map i’ll switch it’s placement between the two points shown. This is the ship that my formation is slaved to. I rarely put it’s speed over .12 simply because this fleet isn’t about closing speed, but forcing the enemy to move to you. This has 1 or 2 carrier bays, good shields, strong armor, auto repair, and mostly anti-fighter with two Cruiser Lasers added in to just make things that much more annoying.
Please excuse the poor drawing/map/layout thingie using characters, it’s meant to illustrate the general shape.
xxxx <-F___________C___W___W___W
xx ← F_______C___M___M___M___M
____ W___M___M

That fleet looks pike easy target for fast frigs

It’s actually a lot stronger against them then you’d think. Not shown are the 8 squadrons of FT. If i’m up against a fleet where the Frigs are the higher thread, i’ll task 2 squads of FT to cover my CR, then tweek the other squad’s orders to raise the priority of Frigates to over that of fighters. Fast frigates aren’t well armored, well armored frigates aren’t normally well armed, and well armed frigates aren’t normally fast. Just my observation. And in ALL cases, the right fighters can kill them all

That fleet u mentioned on the post has 28 cruisers, prob about 2800 in cost give or take

Fast frigs go down to about 700 apiece

So we r looking at 112 frigs basically

Round that down to 100 with a few 0.5 + armored frigs up top for anti fighter

May prove difficult

Btw r u talking about rocket fighter or laser fighter?

My normal FT fleet is a Laser fighter fleet, but i will use some insanely fast rocket FT for fun when needed to kill the frigs

Ramcat, just tried out your ship and WOW that is a nice cruiser! didn’t think you could make a good cruiser with a speed of .5 or higher, but that just shows the different design parameters xD
I altered it slightly to run pure Supercharged Engines


Good point, I made that change too! Also, drop the Heavy Plasma for a Cruiser Laser. Now it does damage at all three ranges (long, medium, short).

I bet there are some other improvements waiting… (oh yeah, the speed is .58 now!)

Ooh, i’ll have to try that. This ship or a version of it might work BETTER for the deep raids i was proposing, as it’s speed means it doesnt’ get hit by all THAT much. That said, it’s got a low throw, so you’d need a lot to do high dps

(also: how does one go about posting moded files on the forum? i’m working on a single modded turret, and want to get some feedback when i have a working version)

I don’t get it. Why would you need long range with 0.58 speed? The long range phase only last about 2 seconds before reaching CL range.

Put in another way, why use weapons other than CL/pulse laser with those kinds of speed?

Tracking speed. With that fleet, i use 4 ships to destroy a larger fleet (because GSB for mac’s isn’t out on steam, i’m still stuck with the 3rd mission :/). Plus with this weapon setup, enemies at every range can be engaged.

Funny you should say that. I built a 3 Cruiser Laser version. Surprizingly it is more expensive and not as survivable.

On ‘Expert’ of The Lagoon Nebula, two of each ship:
Two 3 Cruser Laser ships: dies.
Two 1 Cruiser laser, 1 Beam Laser, 1 Cruiser Plasma ships: Beats the mission.

The difference? Engagement range.

I set the engagement range to the range of the Beam Laser for the mixed range ship.

Now on ‘Hard’ both 2 ship groups win the match but the mixed range ship is cheaper so you get more honor. The 3 CL ships win the mission much, much faster.

I did this work/testing/play at work and I am hoping my memory is correct.

I don’t remember that particular mission, but I’m willing to bet the reason your mixed weapon fleet did better was because you ordered them to stay at range, which was out of the enemy fleet’s range. That doesn’t detract from STW’s point though. Corollary: what’s the point of fast cruisers if you’re just going to keep them at range anyway?

They don’t stay at that range. Even set at 700, they wander right into the enemy and fly under/over other cruisers. The short range guns get lots of action.

But by backing off they ensure their shields recharge, they kill the frigates that follow, and switch to other targets (stop focusing on a tank (for example)).

The damage breakdown is something like 250 shield, 200 armor, 3k hull for the beam, ~600-800 shield, 1k armor, 1.2k hull for plasma, and 250 shield, 500 armor, and 4-5k+ damage from the Cruiser Laser (these numbers are with 6 on expert mode)