Max activity of a drug


#1

Does someone know how to calculate the max activity of a tier 2 or 3 drug?
I know how to do ir with raw ingredients, but when i upgrade them i think there is no way to do it? If not, it should be patched.


#2

I`ve just read it somewhere down here. Sorry for repeating it. I think the best way to do it is just getting an analyser in the production line. Doing de gamedata thing is like cheating :S


#3

They seem to be random so i don’t think there is a way to calculate them?


#4

I think CachoG may have meant in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12726&p=77532&hilit=max#p77532

gamedata thing, if that even works (or looking in the .sav) is so much like cheating, it IS (IMO).


#5

Yes, that should work.


#6

Actualy, there is a way to do so. You just have to introduce your improved drugs into the analyzer and it will analyze your higher level cures.

Just remind how does the analyzer works: It will analyze all the effects present in a drug or ingredient. When you analyze a raw material, only the level 1 cure is present, so you will never find out any information regarding higher level cures, because they are not present on the drug or ingredient when you analyze it. You will have to analyze your improved cures to find out their max strength concentration. No need of complicated calculations or breaking into save data files.

This might seem disvintageous, but if you want to sell only level 3 cures, you won’t need to analyze level 1 or level 2 cures to analyze level 3 cures. You’ll just have to improve your drugs and then analyze them.


#7

Svadac has a good response. The downside to this is that it starts getting very expensive, given you’re destroying one unit of an expensive drug every turn. It is often worth putting the analyzer as early in the line as possible after you’ve triggered lvl2,3 whatever.


#8

I disagree with the above. By analyzing ingredients first, you’re spending the minimal amount to find the max concentrations of all the effects. When you upgrade the cure you only need to analyze for the max of the upgraded cure, as you’ll already know what the concentrations of the side effects are.


#9

When a side effect’s max concentration is already known (via analysis of another ingredient w/ the side effect or ingredient w/ the effect + lower level cure) , if that side effect is included in an ingredient that has an upgraded cure (not yet analyzed), does it actually DECREASE the analysis time of said upgraded cure?

In my, admittedly limited, test runs. the range of # ingredients analyzed (and hence cost) to find the Max concentration, is only based on whether it is a:
side effect
cure (and maybe cure level)
catalyst level

and not on anything else that may be in the same drug.

So my long-winded question is, if it takes “X” time to analyze Max range of a side effect when the cure is at level 1, why not (in the scenario of sell only level 3 cures), just wait until you have the level 3 cure showing to do the analysis? Won’t the analysis time of the effect take the same “X” time- which is likely shorter than a level 3 cure analysis time? What is gained at doing analysis when cure was at level 1?


#10

I think there’s something you are missing about that. What you say would make sense if the analyzer analyses the whole drug, delivering data about everything it contains so that if it has less things to analyze, it will perform faster, but it’s not actually that way.

The Analyzer analyses each effect separetly, so it will take the same tame to analize side efects wether they are on a level 1 or a level 5 drug. Plus, if a side effect is present in two or more ingredients, you’ll only have to analyze one of them to know it’s max strenght on every ingredient, because analyzer analyses effects, not drugs. Also, analyser will not analyze one effect after another, it will analyse every single effect in your drugs at the same time, so analysing drugs with 4 medicines won’t take more time becouse there are more effects to analyse.

About what SCHMID6SIG says, I don’t think that analyzing higher level cures will decrase if you have analyzed their respective lower level cures, because of the same that I stated avobe: Analyzer analyses effects.

All this has been said from my own experience, but I did not tracked down anything or made any testing about it. It’s just what it makes sense to me, based on trying to understand how the game was programmed and how it performs.

Some other interesting research could be to analyze one same side effect present in two different ingredients, or using two analyzers to analyze an ingredient, and check if they get analyzed faster or not. I think it will.


#11

defining NIAFMC= number of ingredients analyzed to find the Max Concentration of the EFFECT/CURE

I was going to propose some elaborate tests for this (see bottom of post) but learned something:
NIAFMC is set randomly for each EFFECT/CURE (w/in a range), WHEN THE GAME IS LOADED
(i.e. the same EFFECT, in the SAME game, can have different NIAFMC when u play that saved game).

Set up a custom game for these tests (some of these not needed for a few tests, but don’t hurt)
# ingredients = 11
starting Ingredients = 5
Up the # side effects to max (Many)
Unlock all exploration areas (Desert, SubZero, Deep Sea)
Unlock Analyzer
increase Start $ up to $250k (just in case)
Drop Explorer Hire and Salary to 0 (not needed but keeps on Co. tab clean)
Start game and Explore all the ingredients until you have same EFFECT on 2 different ingredients (for the tests way below)
(note this could happen very soon after discovery, maybe even upon starting game)
Save the game (“AnalyzerTest1”)

Two Tests for this:

Test 1) - NIAFMC is set randomly on each EFFECT/CURE when a game is loaded?
Load the saved game (“AnalyzerTest1”) (note the bug viewtopic.php?f=50&t=14447)
Analyzer_Count_Steps
- pause game (to make sure you capture the “concentration found” event)
- make a production line w/ 1 input (1st ingredient - note which one you chose), 1 belt, 1 analyzer
- Go to Co. tab, watch Processing Cost (multiples of $8)
- unpause game
- pause game as soon as “Analysys Complete” event notice (for the EFFECT you want)- note the processing cost
The NIAFMC is processing cost/$8 (of course),
This is NIAFMC_Number1. quit game (don’t overwrite the save)

Load the saved game (“AnalyzerTest1”)
repeat Analyzer_Count_Steps , unsing the SAME ingredient containing the same EFFECT
compare NIAFMC_Number1 to NIAFMC_Number2 (they will, or rather CAN, be different - pretty sure its RNG w/in a pre-defined range)

Test 2) NIAFMC is set randomly on each EFFECT/CURE - ONCE it Starts to be ANALYZED?
Load the saved game (“AnalyzerTest1”)
repeat Analyzer_Count_Steps set up, using the SAME ingredient containing the same EFFECT, but don’t start
let 1 ingredient be analyzed (process cost =$8). Pause game.
Save the game (“AnalyzerTest1_OneDone”) Return To Game
Unpause Game and run until “Analysys Complete” event notice (for the EFFECT you want)- note the processing cost (NIAFMC_Number1_done1)
Load the saved game (“AnalyzerTest1_OneDone”) (pause it immediately)
Unpause Game and run until “Analysys Complete” event notice (for the EFFECT you want)- note the processing cost (NIAFMC_Number1_done2)
compare NIAFMC_Number1_done1 to NIAFMC_Number1_done2 ( you could repeat step 2 over and over again).
I get different values every time - so I believe this means starting analysis has no effect on NIAFMC

Note, neither of these tests are perfectly thorough if the same value is found - it could be
coincidence (pretty sure the # ingredients analyzed to find max concentration is w/in a defined range)

I knew NIAFMC is NOT the same for an EFFECT in different games, but didn’t realize it was random w/in the same SAVE.
I Had done initial analysis of NIAFMC in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=14301&p=77538&hilit=nuisance%2Fside#p77538
That was pre-production release of Big Pharma so the values may have changed some since then.

You could perform a similar test to the above, running a test for a side effect at cure level 1,
and then another game with the same at cure level 2 (or 3, 4, etc.) I doubt you can ever truly know b/c it appears to be random.

=====================
Further Tests:

Test 3) NIAFMC is set randomly on each EFFECT/CURE - ONCE it is ANALYZED at 100%?
repeat the test but save it when analyser shows “testing 100%”
compare runs of the saves - are they same NIAFMC? (it wasn’t for me)

Test4) Different ingredient w/ same EFFECT in same game has different NIAFMC?
Load the saved game (“AnalyzerTest1”)
repeat Analyzer_Count_Steps , but this time use 2nd ingredient containing the same EFFECT
compare NIAFMC_Number1 to NIAFMC_Number2 ( I had proposed this, but now think they are ALWAYS random, so you can’t realy compare)

Test 5) Different ingredient w/ same EFFECTin different game has different NIAFMC?
repeat the Custom game set up (easier if you exported the settings :slight_smile: )
start the game until you see the same EFFECT as in Test 1 in some ingredient.
repeat Analyzer_Count_Steps , using ingredient containing the same EFFECT
compare NIAFMC_Test2 to NIAFMC_Number1


#12

Is there a way of testing this? Or has Tim answered this somewhere?
Perhaps we can convince Tim to answer some of these types of questions in a VBlog in the near future.


#13

Doubtless, Analyzer has a lot of stuff to invetigate on it. About NIAFMC, large and detailed statistic research will be needed to figure out more detailed ranges and/or variables involved.

I’ve performed and recorded a simple first test, using five analyzers an 4 different ingredients. Two analyzars analyses one of them, a third one analyses another ingredient with different effects on it, and the last two ingredients share an effect and have some catalyzers on them.

I’m planning to perform some more tests based on your suggestions and some other scenarios I’ll came up with.

I’ll upload the video and results of this first test once they are ready.


#14

In a way you can test this, by looking in the .sav files
“testingProgress” will show a “progress” value for each effect/cure you are analyzing (“effectId”).
You could analyze an ingredient w/ multiple effects, save it (Save#1), continue analysis, and save again (Save#2).
Comparing the 2 files you should see the “progress” value increasing for all effects (indicating it is analyzing all effects at the same time).


#15

Yes, and I found something interesting.

The savefile does not record how many times an effect has been analysed. I was analyzing 4 ingredients at the same time with 4 different analyzers. However, each progress record is different. Only two of them are equal: two side effects marking 20, even when they were not fully analysed at the same time.

My conclusion: Each time the analyzer analyses an effect, it has a chance of not getting any progress. Prove of that is that saving one day before and comparing the recordings, some of them does not advance.

Also, each kind of effect requieres different progress values to discover it’s Max Strength concentration.