Missile Speed

[Cetiah_Nova]

@123stw

The tracking speed is misleading because with missiles, increase move speed lower chance to hit. With both having 0.5 turning, it is unclear how much more accuracy do Nomad Missiles have.

Decoy vs all active warhead will have no bearing since on average, the amount of damage scrambled will be the same. On the rare chance that opponent has a point defense scanner, then Nomad missile will be worst.

The 300 lowered fuel is indeed significant.

One thing for sure though, things that MWM have trouble hitting will be fast enough to get past 900 range against Nomad Missiles.

Edit: Field test show that Nomad Missile hit much more consistently, as their fast speed makes them go through scrambler easier.

I’m including the quote above, just so you can take the statement in context. The problem I can’t wrap my head around is this part here:

@123stw

The tracking speed is misleading because with missiles, increase move speed lower chance to hit.

What does this mean?

I was under the impression that:

• Whether you hit or miss was determined when you launch a missile from your missile tube, before its even traveled to the enemy.
• The missile will travel to the enemy based on its speed, and will adjust its course based on its turn speed, as necessary
• Even if you determined that your missile ‘hit’, it would be a miss if the enemy wasn’t there when your missile arrived

I was under the impression, therefore, that missile speed (and the speed rating of bullets) was a good thing. That they lowered the probability that your hits would be negated. That after a certain point, missile speed was actually more important to overall accuracy than tracking speed.

Am I wrong? Does speed really lower your accuracy?

[N3MES1S]

I think thats wrong. Increasing missile speed doesnt affect the chance to hit. The problem with missiles is that u need to keep in mind that there are other factors that can make the missile to lost their target, or just fly around it without hit. If u decrease the fuel factor too much, the missile can miss the target and then disappear… a lot of people thinks that increasing speed will remove this effect, thats a mistake, we are talking about fuel and even if u increase the speed, the missile will disappear like before. The only thing that affects chance to hit is tracking speed, and increasing missile speed increases (not the contrary) the chance to hit on fastest targets (well, this is logical) cuz the missile will hit before the target gets out of the missile path. But increasing missile speed never will affect negatively to the chance to hit, thats not true.

[123stw]

Lol it means just as I said, increase missile movement lower their chance to hit.

Don’t believe me? Change a missile’s movement to 10, and it will stop hitting anything nomatter how much tracking/turning/fuel you put in to compensate.

And if anyone find a way to get missile with 10 movement to hit, please share.

[Prophet309]

I was able to get a missile with 10 speed to hit, though it did miss a lot more than it should have. Much earlier, I had created a modified version of the frigate anti-fighter missile with a speed of 1, a turn speed of 10 and a tracking speed of 10. Even though it has slightly less tracking speed than the normal anti-fighter missile, it still has a better chance to hit because it travels twice as fast and can make much sharper turns. To test your idea I just raised my modified missile’s speed to 10. It did hit a lot less. So I would say that yes past a certain speed missiles do get less accurate. But it’s probably a very high speed. For example, the Scavenger Racktenorgel has a tracking speed of 0.60 and a missile speed of 2. Against slow cruisers it hits very consistently despite its high speed.

I would say that turn speed, rather than accuracy, is most closely linked to missile speed. For example, my modified anti-fighter missile can fly circles around a frigate if I gave it enough fuel. However, when I raised its speed to 2, its turning radius doubled. Because it was twice as fast it now had to fly twice as far to turn the same amount. And, conversely, if I lowered the speed .33 its turning radius would be 1/3 of what it was originally.

Here is the code for my modified frigate anti-fighter missile: (with its speed raised to 10)

[config]
unlockcost = 0
lockable = 0
armour_penetration = 17
category = “WEAPONS”
classname = “SIM_MissileModule”
cost = 100
crew_required = 10
damage = 20
description = “These new, more powerful missiles were developed to counter those pesky fighters packing shield generators.”
fire_interval = 1000
flareuvid = 0
fuel = 700
guiname = “Enhanced Anti-Fighter Missiles”
has_decoys = 0
has_flare = 1
hitpoints = 40
icon = turret
max_range = 600
min_range = 60
missilelength = 4.0
missilespeed = 10.0
missilewidth = 2.0
name = “frigate antifighter missile II”
powerconsumed = 10.0
shield_penetration = 0
size = “FRIGATE”
slot_type = TURRET
sound = data/sounds/missile_launch.ogg
soundvolume = 1.00
trail_fade_time = 250
tracking_speed = 10.0
turnspeed = 10.0
turret_sprite = “turret_miss_v4”
turretsize = 12.0
warhead = EXPLOSIVE
weight = 50

[dataitems]
0 = cost,DECIMAL
1 = weight,DECIMAL
2 = hitpoints,DECIMAL
3 = powerconsumed,DECIMAL
4 = max_range,DECIMAL
5 = damage,DECIMAL
6 = fire_interval,INTEGER
7 = tracking_speed,DECIMAL
8 = shield_penetration,DECIMAL
9 = armour_penetration,DECIMAL
10 = fuel,DECIMAL
11 = missilespeed,DECIMAL
12 = crew_required,INTEGER
13 = min_range,DECIMAL
14 = has_decoys,BOOL

[Cetiah_Nova]

This is all wonderfully fascinating stuff.

Thank you, guys!

[N3MES1S]

@123stw

Lol it means just as I said, increase missile movement lower their chance to hit.

Don’t believe me? Change a missile’s movement to 10, and it will stop hitting anything nomatter how much tracking/turning/fuel you put in to compensate.

And if anyone find a way to get missile with 10 movement to hit, please share.

The reason is simple. More than 1.x speed on a missile will cause the missile to travel at anormal speed and the game will not catch the real value of the speed at all. If u put a speed between 0 and 2 u will see that your theory is wrong. More than about 2 speed on a missile mode of course will cause the missile to miss, but not for the reason u think, just is a question of a miss controled value for the game. Missiles are maybe the more difficult weapons to handle.

[Cetiah_Nova]

@N3MES1S

The reason is simple. More than 1.x speed on a missile will cause the missile to travel at anormal speed and the game will not catch the real value of the speed at all. If u put a speed between 0 and 2 u will see that your theory is wrong. More than about 2 speed on a missile mode of course will cause the missile to miss, but not for the reason u think, just is a question of a miss controled value for the game. Missiles are maybe the more difficult weapons to handle.

So the missilespeed was meant to have a maximum value of 1.99? And putting it higher than that makes it go wonky?
Does anything else have that limit? Like tracking speed?

[123stw]

well, then you would need to explain the obvious increase in miss rate between 0.32 and 1. Just by increasing fast missile to 1 speed, without changing anything else, and it will miss a lot more.

Believe me, I been playing around between 0.5 to 1 speed for a long time, along with tracking/turn speed/fuel. Your hypothesis isn’t holding up.

[N3MES1S]

@123stw

well, then you would need to explain the obvious increase in miss rate between 0.32 and 1. Just by increasing fast missile to 1 speed, without changing anything else, and it will miss a lot more.

Nop. U can change it till 2.0, and still doesnt affect to the hit accuracy. Almost it works for me in my mods, if i put more than 2 the hit chance begins to go away for no reason. A missile will not miss more cuz u put 1.2 speed.

[123stw]

Nope, I done enough testing to know for sure than accuracy decrease between 0.5 to 1, assuming you don’t put in outrageous tracking/turn to compensate (or start with AA missiles).

Like I said, it’s very obvious if you just mod the fast missile to 1 speed. Anyone can try this on their own.

[Cetiah_Nova]

I loaded a ship with missiles and fired it at a well-defended stationary target. I did this a few times with two different types of missiles. One was the “fast missile”, the other was an identifical missile system, but with a speed of 1.92.

My preliminary tests show that the fast missile (speed 0.32) had a greater hit percentage than the “faster missile” (speed 1.92), as indicated by the post battle reports.

However, I’m still not totally convinced. These reports don’t show me how many total missiles were fired. I suspect that the “faster missile” fired many more times, likely due to its ability to cross the “fuel distance” much faster. I will do some more detailed testing and report back.

I’m going to raise the Fire Interval to an outrageous amount to be absolutely sure that both weapons are firing at roughly the same rate, and that each shot is firing long after the last missile fired has run out of fuel… I may also try a “slow missile” test.

[Cetiah_Nova]

Here are my results:

A cruiser equipped with 6 Fast Missile Launchers (speed 0.32). The firing interval has been increased to 6000 to make sure fuel isn’t slowing down the firing rate.
Test 1: 81% hit rate
Test 2: 86% hit rate
Test 3: 83% hit rate
Test 4: 86% hit rate
Test 5: 87% hit rate
Average accuracy: 84.6%

A cruiser equipped with 6 modded “faster misisles” (speed of 1.92). The firing interval has been increased to 6000 to match the modded firing rate of the fast missile.
Test 1: 67% hit rate
Test 2: 88% hit rate
Test 3: 71% hit rate
Test 4: 68% hit rate
Test 5: 87% hit rate
Average accuracy: 76.2%

Did anybody else try this? How did your numbers compare?

[Prophet309]

I have not. However, from seeing that it takes such a massive speed increase to cause a significant accuracy drop (and the accuracy is still pretty darn good) we should be safe from the effects of this. Because the speed increase from fast missiles to nomad missiles is so much smaller they both probably have a very similar chance to hit. And, as 123stw said, an in-game test showed that nomad missiles actually hit more because their faster speed allows them to more easily overwhelm missile defenses. So yes, increasing a missile’s speed does lower its chance to hit. But, since it takes such a large increase (600%) to produce a noticable effect; it’s not going to be a significant factor.