{MOD} Balance Mod


#1

I get tired of seeing so many unbalanced weapons and etc. Its perfectly understandable that Cliffski is busy doing other things. But honestly, we have no idea when the next patch will be. So I’m starting this! Got a problem with balance? If enough people deem it appropriate, it will be changed in the mod.
No new stuff, just balance changes to old stuff that evens out some more powerful strategies. Post below to bring things to attention! OP will be updated with possibilities, votes, and current changes.


#2

Torpedoes. Make them light enough to be viable.


#3

And extended range.

Berny


#4

Here’s my list

Fighters
Torpedo

Frigate
Rapid Fire Laser
Rapid Fire Cannon (tribe)
Phasor II
Fast Missile (need shield penetration above 27)
Frigate Missile (need shield penetration above 27)
ISSB (need a buff)

Cruiser
Cruiser Missile
Light Plasma
Heavy Plasma
Autocannon
Quantum Blast
Carrier Bays


#5

… you can ballance them yourself…


#6

Agreed. It just takes the willingness to invest time, and to not perform hasty or uncritical work that produces content even more unbalanced than what one began with.

As the OP has only participated on these forums for only six days total as of today and hasn’t been seen at all since August 12, it’s looking like you’d best not be holding your breath waiting for someone else to do all of the work. :wink:

Most of the really “involved-neck-deep-in-GSB” modders are long since occupied by one or more signifigant modding projects. As a result, there’s not very much mental bandwidth left over for other requests at present. However, it might be feasible for some of the quicker items on the above list to be addressed on a purely irregular basis.


#7

If patch making is the only concern, I would have made it already.

Unlike a regular “new race” mod, balance patch requires other people to use it as well. And since it rewrites official files, it will be much more difficult to uninstall. This essentially cuts you off from challenges like SAC, and to the retal system.

So it will end up being a big waste of time.


#8

U cant make a balance mod, the obvious reason is wat posted 123stw before. Well u can make it for your personal use and no online games, but the best thing we can do is to wait to clinfski launch the patch. A “Official” balance patch will be perfectly usable on the online game, but u cant use a home made balance patch for online purposes.


#9

I understand why certain exotic mods, or mods designed to introduce new modules, wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea. Why wouldn’t people want to use something designed to improve the experience of the base game?


#10

I can make some informed guesses “why” based on what I’ve seen in this game’s online player community over the last year-plus. People who are hesitant or even dismissive towards such helpful content appear to fall into one or more broad categories:

  • The players who are strongly involved in the competitive challenge environment
  • The players who haven’t added modded content to their GSB install before and are nervous about trying to figure out how to plug that into their game
  • The players who know that problematic parts of the game can be mod-improved, but are too short on motivation to bother

It’s common knowledge that Cliff is much too overcommitted over the foreseeable future to address the game’s existing balance issues beyond a handful. That might change in our favor, but really…if some things haven’t been seriously reviewed & fixed in an entire year since they first appeared, I truly doubt that they’re ever going to be fixed – not a single one of those balance issues. It pains me to say that it does not appear that cliffski even realizes how much imbalance is in GSB, nor does he seem to have any sense of urgency with fixing it.

There are many such issues (we’ve touched upon but a small few in this thread), and a lot of them are not always glaringly obvious - which ones you’re most aware of relies heavily upon which races you play most often and what equipment supports your preferred playing style. I mean no insult or slur to Cliff. He’s the hardest-working indie developer imaginable, but he’s only one person and does not have infinite mental bandwidth.

Let’s think clearly about “the big picture” for a moment, please…he’s got to keep wrestling with the following:

  • Getting Campaign GSB finished enough to release
  • Tracking down the myriad notorious memory leaks that run rampant
  • Planning what game for Positech to invent next so that he still has an adequate income while GSB sales inevitably taper

You know that something as complex as the Campaign is going to need a lot of patching after its initial release, which is going to take up even more of his design time. Those four strategic goals are way more vital to Positech’s stable future than fretting over (random example) the degree to which the Quantum Blaster still fails to be useful.

So, the short answer: if we want it done, we have to do it ourselves.

If “it” happens to be a feature that changes a part of GSB that’s not “user-servicable,” then we’re totally out of luck.

If instead “it” happens to be a balance problem related to excessively buffer or nerfed modules or hulls, then the mod-friendly architechture of GSB is to our (major!) advantage. It’s up to each player to decide where their own comfort level lies regarding how using such modded fixes and improvements might impact their game experience in other ways.

We’ve heard from a few folks in this thread who place their priority on the challenge environment, and will be understandably resistant to anything that will break that aspect of their enjoyment of GSB. I get that. I know that I am mostly indifferent to the challenges, NECs, SACs, and so forth, so that is not an obstacle to modding for me. I fully understand how it would affect the game for them, though. I wish it were otherwise, as they’re possibly the folks who need such balance fixes the most.

We must also consider the opinion of the folks who, although they are aware that GSB is moddable, feel that the process of adding 3rd-party content is much too difficult, nerve-wracking or scary a venture for them to perform. I would hope that spending some time lurking this Modding sub-forum would help put them at ease, but just how many of them have that much initiative?

I think it’s likely that a larger part of the playership (indeed, the majority) are of the opinion that taking the time to think about player-created improvements and self-service installation of them is a great crashing bore and refuse to seriously contemplate it. They probably figure their time is too valuable to be wasted upon such efforts. One can easily imagine the reasons for their resistance:
Wait for a patch;
I’m too busy for such things;
I’m lazy and I know it;
I paid my cash for that, so let Cliffski sweat over the work.
I understand those viewpoints as well, and while I don’t share them, they’re just as valid.

A part of me regrets that only the appearance of official “Balance patches” from Positech can bring full satisfaction to all parties, but that’s the scenario we’re all stuck with. Until or if that ever occurs, at least we have some partial solutions made possible via the modding route.


#11

Non of us have the authority to declare that “this” (whatever I, or another modder makes) is “better”, and force people to use it. Even if it does make the game more balance, not everyone agrees that “balance is better”. Some people like using what’s currently overpowered in the game.

Cliff have to do it or it won’t offer uniformity in usage, which is essential for a balance patch.


#12

Understandable. I’m simply reminding everyone here that all of us have the access to “get under the hood” and tinker with GSB as each of us sees fit and proper.

Also, finding unanimous player opinion about what’s buffed or nerfed is likewise never going to happen. I don’t mind making changes that, after considerable reflection and playtesting, make sense to me. Anyone else is free to use or ignore my mods, and I wish them well regardless of their choice.

Even if Cliffski were to gift us with a complete and conclusive Balance patch at dawn’s early light tomorrow, you’d still likely have some people who find fault with parts therein and subsequently mod it to their liking. :smiley:

The quest to somehow achieve such uniformity is merely to chase an unattainable dream. Still, the dilemma is clear. The choices for GSB players are:

  • Doing nothing on an indefinite basis while waiting in frustration for 100%-official fixes (waiting perhaps forever), OR
  • Doing something in the present that is freely acknowledged to be imperfect while ALSO being concretely useful!

I’m willing to cheerfully walk away from any & all official sanction in exchange for going my own route and letting others decide for themselves whether or not to use part or all of what I would choose to offer the GSB community.


#13

pushes though the babble and sets up his soapbox

Ok this is how i feel tha we as modders can help Cliffski. . .

  1. We find and list items that are unballanced.
  2. As modders we find soultions to solve the unballaced items
  3. We make a mod that addresses the ballacing issuses
  4. We bug fix the mod till ballance is reached. (if possable)
  5. We ask Cliffski to look at the mod and if he aggres with it to turn it into an offical patch.

steps down and picked up his soapbox and once more pushes though the babble

Ok, that might not come off as I planned but THAT is how I see a ballancing patch to be made if we all want on so dang badly. It will still invlove Cliffski, but not until the end of it and to make it into a patch if he approves.


#14

I’m still on Step 4 with my Augmented Defenses mod, designed to balance out armor and point defense.
Somehow i don’t feel one step away from being official for some reason…


#15

I have a patch that reduces Tribe Hull bonus to 80%, which helps in making them less overpowered but will allow Tribe to remain a strong race. I asked the SAC community as to how likely they will be to use this fan patch. While they agree that Tribe is overpowered, some do not wish to use a fan patch, and rather Tribe be banned for challenges instead. I decided not to post this as it will further divide the already small SAC community. After which, I have also PM Cliff an one page summary as to why Tribe is overpowered as they stand now, and why a reduction in their Hull bonus is necessary. But so far I have not gotten a response.

I find myself out of options besides to wait for Cliff.