First, i’m glad you liked it so much, this mod is the result of the combined efforts of many modders.
About the destroyers costs, as you already noticed all destroyer hulls have a REALLY high cost reduction, the reason of this was to make an imaginary restriction when using Destroyer Class Weapons. Those weapons, you may notice, have a HUGE cost value, that when equipped of a destroyer hull, the cost becomes magically coherent.
This hull cost bonus /module cost value was intended to make to the player unable to load destroyer weapons and modules on cruisers, however, when loading cruiser weapons in destroyer hulls appears a very noticeable flaw of this system… it’s not cheating, but it requires some Honor from the player to get the idea of that Destroyer and Cruiser modules should never be placed on the opposite class hull.
Destroyers have all the modules they need to be that, Destroyers. The same with Cruisers. Mixing modules destroys the whole concept of hull class, and with it, part of the mod gameplay. But that is the player decision, if you have fun mixing modules, go on, the main prupose of a mod is to give extra fun to the player when the core game doesnt is enough anymore!
i’ve suggested before that you give the cruisers the cost decrease and then make the cruiser weapons expensive, destroyer weapons are generally inferior to cruiser weapons in most cases, and it would probably balance better, but that just my opinion
of your weapons right, i don’t suppose you could you could round up a general list of all the weapons i have to modify?
and wouldn’t just changing it to “SIM_BulletWeaponModule” fix it or not?
I know it sounds like critic but other things occurred to me also ^^
And I don’t believe in honor and I don’t wanna die for it. lol
The tracking speed of some guns are ludicrous. You have artillery with better tracking speed than fighter lasers. It’s like hunting ducks with the 125mm cannon.
But the problem is, it looks like a mistake because there is no big trade off for getting this. You have Balista Artillery Cannon with 0.8 and then Arbalest Artillery Cannon with 3.0.
The funniest thing is the Leviathan Siege Lasers also have 2.7 tracking speed.
Mounting Experimental Antimatter Fuel Tanks on certain Cruisers with power bonus will allow you to mount full set of Leviathan lasers. (they have 3x more dps than the artillery cannons mentioned above)
The Ex-Panthea Elite Cruisers can run 7 of these weapons with 3 energy armors (20 armor), target booster and 9500 shield strength. This makes any leviathan or dread looking like a joke :)). It costs 6222 also.
I don’t know if was intended to obtain 18.6 armor on a corvette but it’s kinda nice to see almost invincible corvettes running spree. Actually they can be killed by the artillery mentioned above and some other weapons maybe but very hard.
Frigs. Well, all frigs are useless because the Dummy comes in action! The Elysee packed with 2 Athion Rocked Launchers (why is this 10x more powerful than anything? the fire interval is displayed wrong. it cannot be 12), 2 Guardian AI Upgrade, Target Dummy Ship, 2 power generators and 2 dummy engines, can be almost indestructible followed by 16 logistic drones and 8 tanky corvettes.
The other frigs become useless. Or even the other ships. But maybe I was making something really good.
I’ve made a challenge with a wall of destroyers, you can check it out. It’s kinda funny because nothing can face such a thing. I’ve tried with anything.
But I will make also a complex challenge where I will add all these things.
Damn! I’ll do it myself. There are so many flaws in the balance of damage/range/tracking. I don’t know if you calculated the dps of these weapons, but some of them have 13, some 166. (the leviathan weapons have 130). Some weapons are out of scale and some underpowered. Seems that is easy to configure tho.
I’ve just made 0.4 tracking speed for long range weapons and the idea with the price is good.
There should be a solution to make leviathan weapons impossible to use on cruisers, otherwise there is no point to use leviathans…
I think i know how. The problem is the power bonus on cruisers! 20% allow you to mount the experimental fuel tanks and in this way you get the power for the weapons. The cruisers with just 5% cant run them. so maybe give a raw power and strip the bonus to 5%
And the dps of the artillery should be 50% less.
Question: why the Ballista Artillery Cannon appear twice?
make destroyer price 2x (this will not change much).
make destroyer price bonus -80% .
make all destroyer modules between 1000 and 2500 price. Still not worth to use them on other ships, and this will make actually the price of a module to go between 200 and 500.
Now all the destroyers regarding what they are having mounted cost around 2000. done.
Solving the problem with the leviathan weapons on cruisers.
Chimera Cruiser. Power Bonus deleted, Power increased from 13 to 83. It seem is very ok on combination of modules.
Any power bonus will allow to mount those experimental fuel tanks which give the power for the leviathan lasers.
Jesus! Now i notice, the balancing on artillery weapons was not made in 1.2a, it was made in v1.2b!, wich i never released!
Sorry people! i will try to release the new balancing as soon as possible.
Do not mount Transport Modules on Cruiser Hulls. Making crossovers between classes gives an obvious Overpower/Underpower. Corvette Modules are only for Corvettes, same with Target Dummy Ships, Destroyers, Cargo Transports and Leviathans.
This mod is a bit Overpower if you play it as it was intended, without crossovers. If you mix module classes that Bit becomes VERY.
Mixing module classes in Praetorian Industries Mod is the equivalent of mounting a cruiser sized weapon on a tiny fighter, as i’ve said before, it destroys the whole mod concept. I’ve done some play with the numbers to try to create several new immaginary classes of modules for the new classes of hulls. But it’s far from perfect and can be easily bypassed!
And Bypass leads to Overpower.
In v1.2b artillery no longer can effectively engage fighter scuads (unless really slow). However corvettes are slow enough to get shot down by cruiser lasers, anti-fighter weapons and even some beamlasers.
However, i noticed too that is way tooooo easy to spam EX-Lima Corvettes (meant to be logistic ships instead of combat ships, thus rarely seen), that can have strong armour while having decent speed and REALLY good firepower (Corvette Laser Rail Cannon x2). Some may notice that it can become even stronger than its Purely Offensive Counterpart, the EX-Phoebe Corvette, wich lacks of armour but can mount several weapons (fighter ones mostly). The main idea of the Lima was to have a corvette begin able to load any kind of Corvette Class Modules and Weapons, while the Phoebe was somewhat restricted to use fighter weapons in order to get its maximun offensive potential, at the cost of almost any defensive one, rendering this last hull as a fighter combat support ship, while the Lima is more begin able to lead the vanguard in small numbers.
The fix to this Lima spam, wich turns the hull overpowered, may be increasing its cost, thus decreasing its numbers in battle.
Again, Praetorian Industries is a company dedicated to research, manufacturing and commercialization of almost any kind of space warfare equipment. Most of it equipment stills in Experimental Phase (example: EX-Shipname)
This means that some of this Equipment is Underpowered (a good example is Frigate Throb Beamlaser, wich most of the time is waaay low under the acceptable battle statistics, because this weapon cannot pen any kind of defense and thus cant damage the enemy, unless it is defenseless. And there are other Equipments, such as leviathan weapons that can be considered Highly Overpowered, it was completely intentional to make a supergiant artillery cannon to be overpowered against cruisers or almost any kind of ship, it is huge, it is noticeably more advanced in therms of technology and it obviously can kill most of the things in front of it (meaning that if that thing aims to you, you better are piloting a fighter cuz if not you are dead for good)
Leviathan weapons are overpowered, where the Leviathan itself is not, the game limitations rendered Leviathans almost unusable in most of cases, and they lack of the escense of a Leviathan, they are superslow yes, but they turn WAY faster that they should, it would work better as a giant sword lol, also, with its size comes several problems regarding weapon ranges (the weapons at the back may never see action while the ones at the front will), and its “repulsion effect” due its size, forces to most support ships fly away from them, leaving them alone against fighter spam, and EMP spam.
This is the current Changelog of this mod, i will try to make the last changes and release v1.2b:
--------------- v1.1 Changelog ----------------
Deleted game-crashing Flak Particle accelerator.
Added a few module slots to both leviathans.
Corrected the codes of both EX-Angelos versions.
Fixed Rad-Flamethrower code.
Added hull integrity to every station hoping it fixes the problem of Victory window pop-up before destroying the stations.
Drone Shield Support Beam is now far more powerful.
Drone Beam Laser balanced. No more Drone spam if you want to win.
Fixed Deployment of the two Suvirval missions, now the leviathans will not execute a kamikaze jump in the middle of your fleet.
Corrected several coding errors in the whole mod.
Fixed some graphical issues.
Deleted and replaced the “prae_commercial_alliance_pulsar” wich had writting errors.
--------------- v1.2a Changelog ---------------
EX-Orphus Bio-Warfare Shuttle Added
EX-Helion Superfighter Added
EX-Proteos Spec-Ops Frigate Added
EX-Thanathous Siege Cruiser Added
Praetorian Minefield System Added (composed by 2 hulls and 4 Modules, all of them with data hidden and very hard to unlock and use propely by normal players. ie NPC.)
Plasmatic Flamethrower Fixed, now it will not shot like a shotgun.
Radioactive Flamethrower Fixed, now it will not shot like a shotgun.
Bio-Warfare Rocket Launcher Added. Mixes pretty well with the EX-Orphus.
Multivector Missile Launcher Added. Based on a weapon from Xidolca Mod (Xedilco)
Added Minefields to several starbase-defense scenarios. You will find them in HARD Mode.
Added 50% more of Hull Integrity to every Praetorian Starbase/Shipyhard. Just to be sure.
Fixed the error were scenario 16 gets unlocked by scenario 14. Now it is unlocked only if you beat scenario 15 (final entrechment), as it should be.
Urantia Project added. Composed by EX-Urantia Battlestation and 1 module. Proving Grounds Pack.
EX-Syluminia Diplomatic Shuttle Added
EX-Varus Assault Corvette Added
EX-Centuria Medium Destroyer Added
EX-Vylon Lightweighted Target Dummy Ship Added
Updated the EX-Immanis Omega Class Shipyard with pulseglows
Accelerated the Flamethrowers speed
Enlarged all Destroyer class Turrets by 1 point
Frigate Siege Torpedo Launcher MkI Added
Cruiser Shield Regenerator is now a bit more powerful.
Leviathan Mega Armour Added. Gives to Praetorian Leviathans invulnerability against EMP weapons, some extra power generation and some extra HP. NPC Module, locked due overpower.
EX-Kronus Wormhole Gate added. NPC hull that belongs to Proving Grounds Pack.
Kronus Failure module added. Any ship that has non-synchronized power generators and gets too close to the Gate will get insta-vaporized. Praetorian Industries Power Generators are already synchronized.
Proving Grounds Scenario Pack Updated:
> Transports. Interception style mission added. Lead a pirate raid against a Praetorian Convoy!. 1 New hull and 1 new module.
Balanced Damage and Accurancy on both Frigate torpedo launchers MkI and MkII.
Balanced Arbalest Artillery Cannon accurancy.
Separated the commercial modules from the rest of the mod to avoid crashes, if you own any of the DLCs, just copy the modules with the DLC race on their file names to the modules folder.
@unknownhumanoid: I appreciate your efforts on balancing and correcting several flaws of this mod, but i will rely on player honor to not mix module and hull classes, for now. At least until i playtest your changes.
Thx for the feedback! I didn’t expect you will even take my changes in consideration :P. I just saw the scrips and than I was just thinking I can do something considered standard for a balance.
I’ve posted some sugestions about these things in the GBS 2.0 forum also: viewtopic.php?f=43&t=9478&start=105#p69212
In generally for the increasing range you have a penalty in dps. This is very important because the range is one of the biggest problems of all games. Always who has the range is in advantage and anyone plays for winning. It’s really hard to counter that. In EVE online is not enough they have penalty on tracking or dps, but also the ships are like paper, no tank at all.
I dropped the dps on these weapons and they are still powerful it seems That because every ship loose allot of time coming in range and in that time they have to take allot!
So i increased the fire interval 2x and on crossbow artillery I’ve made the damage 6 and fire interval 220 because was a little bit too powerful compared with the others. It’s like (1000/220)x6=27.7dps It’s still more than a beam laser lol(21).
Arballest Artillery has 40 damage and 1800 interval , so 22.2dps.
Ballista Artillery has 39 damage and 1600 fire interval, so 24.4dps
The dps is still big probably but it’s kinda ok now.
The tracking speed 0.4 could be even much. These guns are suppose to take just cruisers, and frigs in some cases maybe but harder. I’d test it even with 0.2 or 0.3
(there is a bug i think. ballista artillery appears twice)
With the prices of the destroyer it really works and even the destroyer gear cost 1000-2000 is not really worth to mount them on anything else.
Taking out the power bonus on cruisers and dreads and giving them 60-80 raw power solve from the start the problem. I’t so simple and no one will be able to mount leviathan guns on them.
The leviathan guns are op and that’s ok! it should be like this. just maybe the tracking speed would be ok dropped to 0.4 or even 0.2. The dps of the leviathan laser is 130! So that’s a roll. Taking out cruisers, and nothing else. They shouldn’t be able to hit frigs probably. Just saying.
I’ve made allot of tests already. Same fitting on several ships. 1 Crossbow Artillery, the rest Arbalest Artillery, 1 Target Booster, etc.
On a half of budget, a group of 6 Centuria destroyers obliterated the Rebel fleet very easy!
So I dropped the dps half again! Still destroyed the fleet but 1 or 2 destroyers were lost. It seems is kinda ok now.
I switched with Mirv anti-cruiser launchers, and they did fine also, even better. Mirv have also crazy tracking speed (2.0). The torpedo launchers (anti-cruisers) have 0.5 in vanila.
The Destroyer Anti-Cruiser Torpedos, which have 2.5 tracking speed (!) don’t hit the target for some reasons. They failed vary bad.
I’ve made all the cruisers with the artillery fitting, and test them all on the same price range against the same fleet. It seems they did kinda the same way.
So in the end I’ve created a system that gives a balance between all these ships and weapons no matter what you’re mounting on them.
Most of the time I don’t like to make posts for the sole purpose of pointing out typos, but I’ll make an exception because you put “testes” instead of “tests”. They’re both words, but the one you used is… not the one you were looking for.