new ships


#1

Was thinking. Something that could add a lot of depth might be a couple of other ship classes:

  1. Sub: Similar in concept to U-boats. Perhaps using a long term camouflage module or cloaking module. It comes in and maybe has shield busters or (I think this one is better) mass EMP shockwave, shut down all ships in a 500 circle. 75% on EMP hardened ships. Refresh for subs EMP is less than duration of EMP blast. Could base all of these on pre-existing fighter models and just add these as module choices.

  2. Destroyer: Counter to sub. It is the only ship that can detect and kill cloaked subs. Specific anti sub weaponry that acts as a spotlight or disables cloak. Effective range twice EMP blast radius. Again, pre-existing frigate model with new module choices.

  3. Artillery: Expensive, super long range, slow firing, AoE causing, massive damage. Unable to move and fire. Space station or something similar. Probably need a new model. Weapon of choice: pin point black hole.

  4. Kamikaze: Maybe a module choice for frigates. Engines, shield and enough explosives to give Jupiter a shake.

  5. Cloaked Missie: Maybe something that can only be seen as it de-cloaks to get targeting. Make it massive. Possibly shield piercing. Think Dune, the slow knife penetrates. Perhaps a module for the Artillery. Destroyer counters perhaps as it uses similar tech as sub. Nothing else really can touch it.

  6. Flag ship: This could be a module that only one capital ship can take. The idea is that armies fall apart once the chain of command is broken. In the beginning before the battle, you choose from your possible commands from the pre-existing list, Vulture, coop, retaliate, etc. and the three slides, and as long as you have a flagship carrying module, your troops do as instructed. However, once it goes up in flames, all orders are deleted and all ships revert to default behavior, This could add a very interesting twist to the game.


#2

In regards to sub, sub stays cloaked even while using EMP shock wave. Otherwise, sub is a one shot wonder.


#3

Well, maybe not make ship classes but have components so you can make these type of ships?


#4

Regarding “ship type/new modules”, I think in any case it should be new modules even if they only fit on a ship type. Thus, I’d suggest the modules and separately mention the interesting parts of having only a new type of ship being able to use them.

Regarding the suggestions themselves:

  1. Sub: 2. Destroyer:
    Creating a two way attack and counter would force all deployments to have destroyers, just in case. And it would have to be enough destroyers to fight a sub-heavy fleet.
    Forcing fleet composition isn’t good.

  2. Artillery:
    Having a ship type that can’t have engines (a base) and creating modules that only that ship type can use seems interesting. However it must be taken into account that the philosophy of this game all but removes the disadvantage of being inmobile. Many people already remove all engines from many ships just for the slot, not even needing extra modules to be convinced. (This is no strategy game, where ships can reach the enemy while space stations must stay at home)

  3. Kamikaze:
    Already suggested. I do agree it’s enough with the module.

  4. Cloaked Missile: Maybe something that can only be seen as it de-cloaks to get targeting. Make it massive. Possibly shield piercing. Think Dune, the slow knife penetrates. Perhaps a module for the Artillery. Destroyer counters perhaps as it uses similar tech as sub. Nothing else really can touch it.

Why “massive, shield piercing,…”. All advantages will have to be balanced with the littlest laser, so if it’s invisible, massive, shield piercing and forces the enemy fleet to use detecting modules, it will probably never be used because it’ll spend 500 energy and 500 people.

  1. Flag ship:
    Adding the need to specify the strategic command position is interesting but remember that the game doesn’t allow targeting a specific unit, so it would be just adding a random element to battles. (fleet A wins unless one of the 8 ships he’ll probably lose is, by pure luck, the flag ship).

#5

[b]Regarding the suggestions themselves:

  1. Sub: 2. Destroyer:
    Creating a two way attack and counter would force all deployments to have destroyers, just in case. And it would have to be enough destroyers to fight a sub-heavy fleet.
    Forcing fleet composition isn’t good.[/b]

not necessarily. you could just have a light it up effect. making the destroyer a spotter. i thought that an EMP blast would be interesting, and a sub seemed to be a way to deliver it without it being insta killed. most frigates don’t close to less that 500 in the games i have played.

3. Artillery:
Having a ship type that can’t have engines (a base) and creating modules that only that ship type can use seems interesting. However it must be taken into account that the philosophy of this game all but removes the disadvantage of being inmobile. Many people already remove all engines from many ships just for the slot, not even needing extra modules to be convinced. (This is no strategy game, where ships can reach the enemy while space stations must stay at home)

Didn’t know that. I just finished the game on expert. Going to try the online aspect of the game tonight.

[b]5. Cloaked Missile: Maybe something that can only be seen as it de-cloaks to get targeting. Make it massive. Possibly shield piercing. Think Dune, the slow knife penetrates. Perhaps a module for the Artillery. Destroyer counters perhaps as it uses similar tech as sub. Nothing else really can touch it.

Why “massive, shield piercing,…”. All advantages will have to be balanced with the littlest laser, so if it’s invisible, massive, shield piercing and forces the enemy fleet to use detecting modules, it will probably never be used because it’ll spend 500 energy and 500 people.[/b]

It doesn’t need to be massive. I was just thinking that something that bypasses shields would be nice. One or two weapon modules, big or not, that completely ignores shields. Shields, unlike armor, overlap really well. I know there is a module that knocks out shields temorarily, but I think one laser and one missle module that ignores shields could be very cool. Something that goes in and does like 50 damage to the ship.

6. Flag ship:
Adding the need to specify the strategic command position is interesting but remember that the game doesn’t allow targeting a specific unit, so it would be just adding a random element to battles. (fleet A wins unless one of the 8 ships he’ll probably lose is, by pure luck, the flag ship).

It could be a random element, which would be very interesting. Or a fourth sliding bar could be added (fighter, frigate, cruiser, flagship) Though personally, I prefer the random element. Armies fall apart without effective leadership. While we do choose the plans before the battle begins and then watch the results, if you take the time to picture what actually occurs during this time that we are watching( were it real and getting as accurate to realism as you can get with aliens and spaceships should be a goal i think) are the crews of ships following the orders of the captains, who in turn are being directed by an admiral who is keeping the separate groups operating as a whole. Maybe it should be a communications array and a flagship module… who knows, but what I am getting at is that you have a ship with the module. This is the guy who is overseeing everything. Sending last minute details. Getting people to close the flank. Letting the fighters know that the unit they are supposed to protect is under fire. Etc. The minutia. It is the line of communication that is the difference between victory and a rout. You lose it and you lose the lynch pin of the battle group. Important messages are no longer relayed. There is static where there used to be instructions. Each unit falls back on basic training and can no longer coordinate movements. It is a random element, but it is a realistic random element.


#6

in regards to the bypassing shield weapon, it could be one only available to frigates at short range or a heavy fighter weapon. balance it but have it.


#7

Realism at the expense of fun is not a good idea. There’s already enough randomness in this game, we don’t need it to be any harder to get our ships to do what we want them to do.

Also:

Fighters can already attack from inside shield bubbles, so you do have that option. I could see this working as a short-range frigate weapon though, assuming it could be done in a balanced way.


#8

The only other hull class you could feasibly add would be station. Everything else should really just be a matter of new modules and combinations.


#9

Some Cruiser hulls are smaller than others, likewise with Frigate hulls. Its purely aesthetic I think, but maybe it could be an option to more accurately classify hull sizes and maybe slightly tweak their layouts. From a naval perspective, going from smallest to largest, I think the ships in this game could go Fighter, Frigate, Destroyer, Light Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, Battleship.

Having said that, its not like players cant do it themselves if they want.


#10

To an extent, this discussion is just a matter of semantics - is a frigate with 8 slots really a corvette? Is a cruiser with 20 slots really a battleship?

Of course, the module characteristics and selection do differ by ship class, so there is a mechanical difference between classes at work. I think the real question here is, is there a reason to add another class with a distinct set of modules? I think there’s still a ton of variation that can be gotten out of the current ship classes just by tweaking and expanding the available module sets.


#11

Here’s one potential answer to explore: http://positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3123 . Perhaps it’s just a simulated answer [-discreet cough-]. What IS “the sound of one hand clapping”, anyhow? :wink: