Proposed change to existing 'Attack [shipclass]' orders

Even if this suspected bug (http://positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=10756) is resolved, I would like to make a suggestion for the attack [shipclass] order.

My troube with the current behaviour is the following:

If I set 100% attack priority to destroyers, 1% to frigates and I delete all other attack priorities, I expect attacking destroyers. But on the battlefield, if my ship meets a frigate before any destroyer (assuming both have the same attack range), then it engages that frigate. Even if 2 seconds later a destroyer get in range, it will continue to engage (attack and navigation) that frigate for quite a long time.

I know I can delete the ‘attack frigates’ order to completely ignore frigates (assuming it is working as expected), but this is not what I want. I would like to engage destroyers as long as there are any on the battlefield, and only when all destroyers have been eliminated, frigates may be engaged.

Suggestion:
In the ‘attack shipclass’ order, divide the priority slider into 2 sections:
high priority: 51-100%
low priority: 1-50%

The new behavior works like this:
Attack orders with low priority will be ignored as long as there are high priority ship classes alive.
Within the same priority section, the target selection is done as usual.

My suggestion not only solves the aforementioned ‘problem’ by giving players a little bit more control, it will also make it easier for players to set up the priority values if they understand that there is a change in the behaviour at the 50% mark.

In the situation I mentioned above, my ship with 100% attack priority to destroyers and 1% to frigates will engage exclusively* destroyers, as long as there are destroyers on the battlefield. Only when all enemy destroyers are eliminated, my ship will engage frigates.

* My ship will still fire at other ship classes that are in range, but it will not ‘lock’ on them, instead it will continue to navigate towards destroyers and open fire at destroyers as soon as they are in range.

Example 1 (with my suggestion implemented):
80% attack priority dn (dreadnoughts)
40% attack priority cr (cruisers)
30% attack priority fr (frigates)
20% attack priority de (destroyers)

Engages exclusively dreadnoughts as long as there are dreadnoughts alive.
When all dreadnoughts are killed, cruisers, frigates and destroyers are engaged as usual.

Example 2 (with my suggestion implemented):
90% attack priority de
60% attack priority fr
60% attack priority cr
10% attack priority dn

Engages destroyers, frigates and cruisers as usual. Dreadnoughts are ignored at first.
Only when all destroyers, frigates and cruisers are killed, dreadnoughts will be engaged as usual.

I think it would be better for the ship to simply switch its target from the lower priority target to the higher priority target once one gets into the “engage range” set by the order.

With the current/old behaviour, my ship will not only fire at lower priority targets, it will also navigate to it (as far as I can tell). In other words, my ship is lured away by lower priority targets. My proposal also deals with this situation.

Your proposal solves only the weapons targeting, not the navigation target. Admittedly, if the target switching would be fast enough, I could live with it.
But then it really needs to work properly. Currently, even if I delete the ‘attack fighters’ order, my ship is still lured away by fighters (see link in my initial post).

FYI: The reason behind my proposal was the following:
Often I really want to kill all destroyers as soon as possible because they have a crucial role in supporting dreadnoughts. In the current state, I am not able to do it, because my first strike cruisers are lured away by other ship classes that come in range earlier. And when my cruisers eventually get in range of those destroyers, they don’t switch to attack them (or they get destroyed before they switch).

Hi, so if I understand things, whats being said is that when a lower-than-top priority target is selected for navigation, that choice is never re-evaluated (or re-evaluated too infrequently) right?
I thought I’d fixed that back in GSB1? Did I really not fix it? Or have I cleverly re-introduced it this time? I shall dig further…

You got it.

I should point out that the strange behaviour I described here may be realted to this bug (viewtopic.php?f=45&t=10756).

Edit (see below):

Test challenge online
I uploaded the online challenge no. 5189753 for testing purpose. The fleet consists of 1 destroyer in the middle of a bunch of frigates.

After downloading the challenge no. 5189753, you have to set up your own fleet to play against the aforementioned fleet. Design a cruiser* with 1 weapon (I used a Pulse Laser, but you may want to use a Light Beam Laser for easier observation).

Deploy 1 cruiser in the middle of your deploying zone. Set the following order and delete all other orders:

- [b]'Attack destroyers': priority 100%, range 800[/b]

During the whole battle my cruiser has Destination and Tactical Target set to the destroyer. This is correct, but actually it fires at the frigates, not the destroyer.

* the cruiser I used:

[code][config]
name = danous test cruiser
guiname = danous test cruiser
hull = F1_CruiserC
description = test cruiser

[modules]
0 = cruiser_pulse_laser,
1 =
2 =
3 =
4 = cruiser_light_power,
5 = cruiser_crew_small,
6 = cruiser_heavy_armor,
7 = cruiser_fast_repair,
8 = cruiser_heavy_armor,
9 =
10 = cruiser_light_shield,
11 = cruiser_heavy_armor,
12 =
13 =
14 =
15 =
16 =
17 = cruiser_heavy_armor,
18 = cruiser_thrusters,
19 = cruiser_advanced_engines,
[layer_0]
_rotation_speed = 0.0000
_offset = 0.000000,0.000000
_size = 0.500000,1.000000
F1_CruiserC,63,63,63,255,0.000000,0.000000,0.000000,1.000000,1.000000,0,0

[targets]
0 = 0.3125,0.5625
1 = 0.3125,0.6875
2 = 0.3125,0.8125
3 = 0.4375,0.0625
4 = 0.4375,0.1875
5 = 0.4375,0.3125
6 = 0.4375,0.4375
7 = 0.4375,0.5625
8 = 0.4375,0.6875
9 = 0.5625,0.0625
10 = 0.5625,0.1875
11 = 0.5625,0.3125
12 = 0.5625,0.4375
13 = 0.5625,0.5625
14 = 0.5625,0.6875
15 = 0.6875,0.5625
16 = 0.6875,0.6875
17 = 0.6875,0.8125
[/code]

Ahahaha. I believe this to be a bug that only affects targeting of destroyers. Have found it, and will fix and test it… Thanks for reporting it.

Going back to the original bit, there are a few edge cases where competing driving and gunning behaviors just won’t work.

If, for instance, I have a frigate that has guns I want firing only at fighters, but I want it to approach enemy cruisers and stop within a set distance, there’s no way for me to express that outside of just tethering it to other ships. Worse, if I’ve deleted everything but ‘attack cruisers’ I have no idea how the craft is going to behave in absence of cruisers. The ability to delete orders is kind of strange if you think about it - we shouldn’t need to do so.

The percentages generally sense for gunnery as long as the reload times are quick enough. I could see an ‘advanced mode’ where you can set independent sliders for each and every gun, with the driver slot being treated as another gun. Would be a UI nightmare, though.

You are right, my proposal doesn’t go so far. The distinction of driving and gunning would be welcome for everyone who wants a little bit more control.

Let me briefly go back to my original post:
My original proposal was only posted because my ships didn’t behave like I was expecting. After a few days I recognized that this faulty behavior was caused by bugs. If the bugs are going to be fixed, my proposal will not be that important anymore. (Well, it could still give a simple option to players in giving them the ability to specify primary targets and secondary targets; the latter would be ignored until all primary targets have been destroyed).

1 bug that was causing the faulty behavior was fixed in the meantime, but another is still here.
The attack [shipcalss] order says: “To avoid engaging these ships, delete this behavior”

Unfortunately, even if I delete the ‘attack fighters’ order, my ships are still chasing fighters. See bug http://positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=10772&p=71685#p71685

I agree, it’s strange to delete the attack orders.

In terms of tactics it would be very nice, but it would also take much more time to set up your fleet.

I would support a 0% value for the attack orders that would have the same effect as deleting them currently does, but allows you to at least set a range for when there are no other targets left on the map.