The 🇫🇷 France map feedback and balance thread

FRANCE! Is coming soon, and when the next update rolls it out, I am keen to hear peoples thoughts, especially if you are from France and can see where we have gone wrong!

I’m looking for feedback on places where any of the policy settings or values seem wildly off, or any really mainstream policies are missing,

Obviously remember its a game that has to be balanced for fun, so we may have used some artistic license in a few places.

We can have country-specific overrides of any effect in the game, so I’m open to feedback and suggestions. Currently the game gives france a reduction in alcoholism, due to the fact that the french often start drinking with family at meals and are not known for the binge drinking riot-like mania of the UK :D. I also added a bonus to tourism generated by French history.

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Debt seems to be too high (default starting values)

Public debt is 98.1% as of 2019, so it should be similar for 2020 too.
Also I get credit downgrade on next turn causing debt to skyrocket.
Socialist and capitalist ways of solving that doesn’t work - popularity crash is unrecoverable.

Maybe GDP itself is too low?

Ignoring deficit works though - I’m trying to get all GDP boosting policies.
Looks like subsidizing everything worked - debt crisis eventually disappeared.
Tax shelters halved equality though (was maxed out).

I managed to fix France, but apparently there were term limits :stuck_out_tongue:

The nominal outstanding debt of the country is accurate - the 2.45 trillion euros, which is around what France’s debt was at the end of last year. The debt/GDP ratio on the first turn shouldn’t be that accurate, since the starting value of the GDP is based on the where the simulation outputs it according to the country’s starting policy values/situations.

Yeah I noticed that later.

I’m aware that the GDP doesn’t seem right, I spent a LUDICROUS amount of time going back and forth tweaking policies to try and get the france starting position to match up with the real world situation, but this is as close as I could get.
When more countries are added I will eventually do an additional balance pass of all existing countries to see what can be tweaked.

I suspect there may be some cultural issues at play that explain the relative success of the french economy, given phenomena such as corporate exodus and brain drain. France has experienced seriously corporate exodus in the past,m and fairly recent exodus of the super-wealthy. It also doesn’t have especially high science and research budgets… so why is the country not in more trouble economically?

Perhaps we are underestimating the effect on productivity that the french welfare state is generating through state-provided services? Maybe there is a sense of patriotism that keeps french people in their country even if financially they would be better off elsewhere… in fact that makes me wonder if patriot membership should reduce emigration…?

Its such a complex system!


There is multiple business supporting policies - maybe those increasing GDP could be added to countries?

Honestly I genuinely think many such issues are due to the game simply not modelling the world to a sufficient degree. Reality is just way more complex. You can’t possibly model everything of course, but I do think a few more parameters could make things work for a larger number of countries.

Hi there, just a few tips from a french fan.
First of, prostitution is illegal in France since 2016 Link.
Also, we do not really have a three system. We have a first turn where anyone can participate if their party gathered enough signatures from elected officials among other things (link en french, sorry about that) and once that turn is over, if no one has at least 50% of the votes, we do a second turn between the first two. So I’d argue that it’s more a two party than a three party system, but that’s just my interpretation.
Also, is it normal that there’s neither the quantitative easing or the helicopter money policy?
I’ll add other things if I think of any in the future.

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Quantitative easing and helicopter money need sovereign currency.
So countries using euro can’t use them.


There is a bug that if a donor demands Helicopter Money, you can still implement it as a response even though it shouldn’t be available.

Thats fixed in the next update :smiley:


Some points after just one game with the new version, as a French :slight_smile:

  • France has ID card
  • Labour law in France are not THAT “pro-union” recently, should be middle slider i’d say (a bit more pro union than usual europeans countries but not much)
  • There is no luxury good tax in France
  • High speed subsidies do exist in France
  • Capital gains tax is actually 19%
  • Secularity of teaching should be more towards atheist
  • Sales tax is 20% for highest rate

That’s all i’ve got for now, thank you for all your good work :slight_smile:

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Excellent, thanks for the feedback. I have changes to make! dont take the actual number rates too seriously on tax sliders, they are just to add flavour really. the main thing is to get them correct relative to each country that we model.

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So I have been playing France a ton, and re-read through all of the posts. A couple thoughts:

  1. I like the idea of patriotism reducing emigration. I actually think that’s why many Americans stay even though welfare states could greatly benefit them.

  2. I wonder if the impact of higher wages and shorter working weeks are misplaying. While individual output is strong, France’s policies do provide both income and time to spend the income. IDK if this would work across the board, but maybe upping the economic impact of those benefits is important.

Salaries and unemployment benefits (on 98.25% of gross) Retirement or Disability Pensions (on 95% of gross) Investments, annuities, rental income and capital gains
CSG (Contribution sociale généralisée) 9.2% 6.6% 8.2%

As you can see, in France additionally to Income Tax there is an additional Flat Tax to fund the Social Security (Due to the payments of social contributions are not enough to sustain that). So, I think that every country should be able to implement both taxes at the same time. But, keeping in mind that if both are really high, even the Flat Tax policy would reduce GDP and public revenues…
Perhaps, to adjust the degree of “progressivism” in Income Tax could be an addition.

glad to be back on democracy.
Here is my feedback for the moment:

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