The High performance engines (and motors) thread


#1

Its been on my todo list (and also the top requested players item) for a while, and finally now the artwork is here, the high performance engine and motor (for electric cars) stuff is about to go in. I did all of the code for the actual implementation yesterday, I need to update the GUI for selecting it so its more user friendly, and also add options to make rather than buy-in the stuff before releasing it as an upgrade.

I’m obviously interesting in feedback on my implementation of this feature:

:pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine:

Current Implementation:

Along with the current power-train options (standard(ICE),Hybrid, Electric and stop-start) there will be four new options:

  • High performance power-train

  • Super-High performance power-train

  • High performance electric power-train

  • Super-High performance electric power-train

The current (base) purchase prices for importing them are as follows:

  • Standard $930

  • Stop-Start $1,030

  • Hybrid $1,800

  • Electric $1,500

  • High performance power-train$1,800

  • Super-High performance power-train $4,650

  • High performance electric power-train $3,000

  • Super-High performance electric power-train: $6,000

:pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine:

Remember that a power-train is the starter motor(ECU), transmission and engine assembly.

When I look at these numbers, they all seem woefully low, but I am aware of the fact that allowing the player to manufacture power-trains gives me a bit of a problem in terms of resources. For example, making a standard engine assembly requires:
1x engine block plus 4xvalves.

Now obviously with faster engines I could require 8xvalves or 16x valves no problem, but that puts MASSIVE strain on resource importers, and also frankly does not lead to a big enough boost in the production cost, even if I was to double the length of time to assemble the faster engine assembly.

I am slightly stuck because I have got a very user-friendly and easy-to-explain system where individual items are represented equally as a resource, so a wheel is 1 wheel, a valve is one valve, and so-on.
I COULD introduce new resource items which only went into high and super-high perf items, but then that bloat out the resource list even more (I just added 8 new items, and more are on the way…)

I know some of you work in the industry and know the true values, but I have to remember its a game and must be fun and balanced rather than totally realistic. What I’m trying to achieve here is a way to make those luxury cars really justify the price tag, and an extra $3,650 for an engine isn’t going to get me there :smiley:

Maybe the price of all power train components needs a significant bump upwards? (I can always increase the value of the base car model which assumes a standard power-train).
Another option is to include an extra ECU (starter motor) AND a chip in the high performance motor, and an extra 2 of each in the super-high one. That will push the prices still higher.

All thoughts are most welcome.
:pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine: :pl_engine:


#2

Hi Cliffski,

Well, I throw myself first

I give you my point of view.
First of all I think it’s a good idea but it will be not easy to implement this in game.

To summarize and if I understand correctly, you seek to justify the price of luxury cars with new engines.

After reflection and discussions with some friends, it appears that for us (we are French) we doing a difference between high-end and luxury cars.

You can have a high-end car with all options without this one is a luxurious car because they are produced in mass
In my opinion (it’s just me), there are differents elements that come in a luxury car. It’s not just the engine. You have too the design, the manpower to build it, the products quality, finishings, and the produced number. Let me explain :

Manpower: The number of searchers, designers, workers involved in the car (bodywork, engine, paint, etc …) should be taken into account. Unlike a robot that can work 24/7/365, the intervention of man’s hand must be paid especially sui it has a talent (coachbuilder, painter, mechanic, saddler, etc …).

The power of the engine (V6, V8, V12, Hybrid etc …), this is the subject of this thread

Finishing: raw materials are also important in my opinion. They should be first quality. Seating for example should be done with the leather of young cows, sewn by hand, not with a leather of “old cows” which is sewn by a machine. Similarly for the dashboard, having a dashboard in gold plated or burr walnut lacquered brings out the luxurious aspect compared to a simple plastic or imitation leather dashboard.

Finally, that is doing a luxurious car is the number that is produced. These are relatively rare cars. (I am told that these cars have a particular number).

May be some ways to do this in game :

1 - The luxurus car should be a separed category. (a different bodycar researched by design center)
2 - We could produce a limited cars every 200 or 250 cars.
3 - Send thes cars to a specific human slot by inteligent joint. (send to a painter and not in automatic slot with robots).
4 - Produce the specifics chains (artisanal chains with quality product) for that men produce a limited quantity or put more longer to do this that robots.

I will try to send you tomorrow a picture for more explanations on how to increase the prices with the same imports products (Steel, paint, leather, dashborad etc…)

I don’t know what you thinking about this, but it could be a answer.
Best Regards
Krys29


#3

I agree that there are, as you suggest, hundreds of little things, especially regarding higher spec materials, that contribute towards a true luxury car. Obviously we have to approximate stuff a lot for the purposes of the game, and I don’t want to introduce loads of little components like wire, switches, plastic etc. Its a tough battle to get the game to balance out with a small list of resources :frowning:


#4

Hi Cliffski,

I totally agree with you.
What I also want to say (like you) is that to bring out the luxurious aspect, there has to be a justification for higher prices.

For engines, you can actually add one or two chips more but as you say, this is not what will increase the price of the engine and bring you closer to luxury.

On the other hand if the human being intervenes in the place of the robots, then there yes, I think that as you increase the time of production you will increase the cost of the manpower.

I will take a simple example that includes these two principles and can quickly drive up prices:

Currently, it takes about 4 minutes to apply the last coat of paint (3 pots with 1 worker). This represents a cost of about 500 to 600 excluding robot costs. (Sorry for not having the exact numbers).

I think, there could be for example 2 or 3 men instead of these robots to spend this last coat of paint. So 2 to 3 times longer, to paint this car with possibly a failure rate (waste for example).

So we increased the production time (between 8 and 12 min) and therefore multiplied by 3 (or 4) the cost of labor. And also used more raw materials. (For you to see the rates to apply).

It may not be very clear so here is a picture of this concept:

This would be valid for everything related to assembly or/and mount differents parts.

There is no need to create additional resources (cables, screws, filters and other small components) since the resources used are the same as those already present.

Could you consider that, as we would be closer to $ 100,000 (the low limit for a luxury car) it is a luxury car that is produced (especially if the number produced is very low).

This gameplay would be interesting and fun to tackle since it would manage the two types of production that are opposed but which keep the principle of production lines.


#5

How about having a component quality slider (or similar) which impacts the output quality.

You can then import the engine at the quality (and price you want), so you still only have 1 type of engine on the list, or one type of engine block etc, but if you increase the quality of the purchase it will change the quality of the output, and the average of the quality of the inputs gives the quality of the output. This could be implemented for every component in the car and change the quality of the car.

You could also have parts that influence performance so you can have high performance low quality or any combination of in between on each parameter.

Takes you from Dacia (LP/LQ) to Rolls Royce (LP/LQ) to Noble (HP/LQ) to Bugatti (HP/HQ).

You could also have performance affected by weight, so if you make it light weight you don’t need massive performance engines to give a good performance car (Lotus).

Of course true quality isn’t just on parts, as said above, so you could have variation on the station length selectable within a range to change the quality. Longer time spent gives better quality, but costs more and reduces possible cars per minute. Does make line balancing easier though.

You could have it so that you can always import parts high quality / high performance, but building them in-house requires research to unlock different levels of quality.

And a slight tangent: could you also require research time for each new model or changes to spec of existing model to represent the time taken for integration / homologation? It would give a purpose to having a research facility after every part is researched. You could also have no upper limit on performance / qualitiy, but you need to keep researching to unlock higher levels.


#6

Regarding keeping research around, we definitely have not finished adding research options. Even now I have planned the following:

Air suspension
Parking Sensors
Auto-lane changing
Full self-driving
Chip manufacture
AI-chip (for FSD) manufacture
Premium Touchscreens

And there is definitely more room for process optimisation research, metallic paints etc


#7

Turbo’s and superchargers!


#8

I Just realized today, I can research Manufacture Fast and Superfast Engine before I have researched either Fast or Superfast technologies. I have not tried to build them yet


#9

yup, you wont be able to fit them without doing the base research though :smiley: