The Never Ending Challenge

Inspired by this thread http://www.positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5352 and my understanding of the SAC tournaments (however wrong that might be).

Actually just want to say a word of compliment to the SAC inventor and community. Comments like:

Shows that you have done your job well and created more fun than the challenge system (not that there is anything wrong with the challenge system) provided by default.

I hope the same has been true for my DuelDowns. It certainly has been for me.

This is why I suggest codifying it into the game so everyone can play. I tried to play SAC 1 but couldn’t find all the challenges (and in the current challenge system it is just too hard). I would also say this is true of the DuelDowns, people forget to post their costs and they have a hard time finding the entry point (and DLC is getting in the way).

But all that aside, I’d like to introduce or clarify my concept of the Never Ending Challenge.

The first Never Ending challenge is called:
NEC 1 (see challenge forum) The Never Ending Challenge 1

Rules (if I may be so bold)

• Play each challenge in order:
  [list][*] NEC 1 preceeds NEC 1-1 which preceeds NEC 1-2 and so on…
• Save your fleet (because they’re all on the same map you’ll be able to load it for each challenge).
  [/:m]
  []Do not alter your fleet between challenges (or after the final challenge), if you do:
• Save you fleet.
• Go back to NEC 1 and start over (load your saved fleet for each challenge).
  [/:m]
  []Challenges you can’t play:
• DLC (a race) you don’t have, you can skip that challenge.
• Challenges you can’t download, please report them, and skip.
  [/:m]
  []If you win every challenge:
• Post your fleet as NEC 1-X, where X is one greater than the challenge you just beat (the last one).
• The names should be NEC 1, NEC 1-1, NEC 1-2, NEC 1-3, NEC 1-4, NEC 1-5, and so on…
• Post from the challenge you beat (so the map does not change).
• Make sure you post to “All”, these aren’t personal challenges as in the DuelDowns.
  [/:m]
  []No back to back posts:
• If you have the last challenge in the chain, don’t post until after someone else has.
  [/:m]
  []Search as carefully as possible to make sure there are no other fleets on the end of the chain:
• Concurrency will occur, if there are two NEC 1-5s you can beat either one before moving to NEC 1-6.
• Sort by “Taunts” and by “Maps” to find the next NEC map.
  [/*:m][/list:u]

I probably haven’t thought of everything, and your input is welcome.

Now a word about NEC 1. It’s just a fleet, nothing special. All of you can beat it. I have tried to use some of my best ship designs from the DuelDowns and before. I am not good at fighters.

But the real challenge of this Never Ending challenge will come in the differences between fleets. You might beat NEC 1 with ease but NEC 1-1 could be awesome. And sure after a couple of reworks you can beat both NEC 1 and NEC 1-1 with ease. And lets say you sail through the next three. Then you hit NEC 1-5, and it decimates you.

You’ll have to rework your fleet, not just to beat NEC 1-5 but all the fleets before it as well.

I hope you have as much fun with this as I will, and I hope to see your fleet in the chain.

In a tournament such as this one you really need a policy on how to deal with a fleet that sometimes wins and sometimes loses to a specific challenge because it will quickly become an issue. I suggest counting it as a winner if it wins a majority of times in testing.

Hmmm… that’s a good point. How do the other groups handle this?

For me personally, in the DuelDowns, if i make a ship or order change and win the next match, I count that as a win and post it. I don’t often replay the same matches with no ship or order changes.

For a majority, would you say 2 out of 3 (66%) or a straight majority (51%)?

@follick

Can you repost that? (as NEC 1-1)

“NEC 2” would be a seperate Never Ending challenge, NEC 1-1 would be the second challenge in the first Never Ending Challenge.

Or we just started a second NEC, and subsequent challenges would be NEC 2-1, NEC 2-2, NEC 2-3, etc…

And NEC 2 should be on a map called “NeverEnding2” just to keep things straight…
I just realized you can delete NEC2, so it would be nice if you deleted it after you repost it as NEC 1-1. Thanks.

correct me if I am wrong
you have to beat all previous NECs in order to post NECx+1. not just the last 3 as in SAC?

Yes, you have to beat all the matches in order with the same fleet (no alterations).

And the name should be NEC 1-(X + 1).

So currently the path you’d have to beat is
NEC 1, then NEC2 (which should be named NEC 1-1), then NEC 1-2

The nameing convention is:
NEC (the type of challenge/tournament) 1 (the designator or number of the tournament (so we can have a second or third NEC))
Add on challenges are as follows:
NEC 1-X; X being the order the challenge was added to the list.
NEC 1-1 would be the first callenge added, and NEC 1-2 would be the second one added (so three in total).

If anyone can beat NEC 1, NEC2 (NEC 1-1), NEC 1-2, please post yours as NEC 1-3.

Well, 1-3 is up. Yet more fighter spam, I could probably have optimised it more but watching all those slooow dogfights play out was taking forever.

I like the idea of this though; basically every fleet has to be a sweeper, right? It’ll be interesting to see how far the chains go before it gets impossible.

Would anyone be interested if I set an NEC-2 up on a different map? I was thinking of using one I’ve made recently…IIRC it’s 130 pilots, 50,000 credits (384:1 ratio) on a medium-size map (just over 3000 size, I think). The way it’s set up now is with all cruiser weapons limited to 30 and frigate ones all limited to 50, with engines required. I’d be happy to change any of the parameters if someone wanted.

Uh, that would be awesome.

Because we have the misnamed NEC2, could you go to NEC 3, and call the map NeverEnding3, please. Makes it much easier to sort. BTW, follow on challenges to NEC 3 would be NEC 3-1, NEC 3-2, NEC 3-3, NEC 3-(X+1), and so on.

I think this first NEC (NEC 1) has taught us we need to limit certain options to prevent fighter spam, etc… I like your ideas for a map.

NEC-1-4 is up (4617038)
beats all previous 3 easily (~70% left).

@zGeneral

Could you repost that with the DLC you don’t need unchecked? I can’t download it. And I do have Tribe.

I beat NEC 1 through NEC 1-3, so I posted NEC 1-5 (4617058)
(had to skip NEC 1-4 because it was undownloadable).

hmmmm
you need to delete ur NEC-1-5 as my NEC-1-4 beats it
I have sent u a retaliation to se if u can access it.

I reposted it mine and removed the latest DLC nomad.

True, I could delete it. But according to the rules it earned it’s place there. That said I would be more than happy to remove it if the community wanted. And if no-one posts NEC 1-6. @zGeneral, your and my vote cancel (we’re on opposite sides of the issue), so lets let our friends vote here. And only those who’ve actually played the NEC (any NEC) count.

Please chime in if you’d like to remove or keep NEC 1-5.

Lol you should get Nomad for 3 dollars so you can play the challenges.

Anyway NEC 1-6 up.

NEC-1-7 The Art of War - is up
beats all and the last two are beaten at ~20%

at some point I was able to beat both >40%. but I lost the formation while fine tuning (lesson learned!)

1-8 up, tribe missile spammmmmm. Beats all, with the closest being actually ramcat’s 1-2. I have so much newfound respect for the pulse laser… Those fighter spams are REDONKULOUS!

PS: Ramcat, that rule is not fair… you shouldn’t be able to just completely skip a fleet, especially since it was tribe, not even a Nomads fleet. just go get Nomads, it’s 3 bucks man! Or if you can’t afford it, ask zGeneral or STW to buy it for you since they is rich!

Not having to play a challenge you can’t download is fair.

I could win all fights by making them undownloadable (now where is that mod…).

There is a reason I don’t have Nomads. I am testing the game with DLC missing. I want to see what the experience is like. I didn’t know when I bought the game that buying all the DLC made it way easier to play. I am actually doing this for Cliffski and reporting my experience to him.

So it will make the game better for all of us in the long run. Sorry it is causing a small inconvenience now, but it should make it better for all of us.

Lol that doesn’t make any sense. It’s not like Nomad is as overpowered as Tribe, and you already have Tribe.

Deliberately using modded content and not having official contents are two different things. It wouldn’t be fair for me to skip all the Tribe battles by removing tribe.txt from Gratuitous Space Battles\data\installs.

That said, I think you can download Non Nomad battles that has Nomad checked by adding nomads.txt into data\installs, which contains the following.

EDIT: Ignore NEC-1-9 (deleted) until I get it fixed!!! - After I came back from work, I tried to fine tune it and found out that the original NEC-1-9 that I posted is giving different results on NEC-1-5 and 6!!!. it must be due to the random dogfighting behaviour.

EDIT:
The game is carshing on me every time I run it!!!, I have to fix this one first.

Geez, you guys intimidate me. NEC 1 chewed my Rebels up for breakfast… several times.

can someone help
everytime I start a fight (any challenge) the game crashes to desktop with no error messages!!!