Your feedback required!

Hi everyone. I have some specific questions I’d like answering based on the latest update. I humbly request your feedback. :slight_smile:

Before answering please check that you are on version v0.43.00 or above! Please only talk about your experiences since updating to this version.


  1. How difficult do you find each challenge to a) Complete and b) get expert and master ranking? Please specify individual challenges when replying e.g. “Even mo’ money” or “Putting the competition to sleep”. I encourage you to make comparisons e.g. I found Expert easy to get on challenge X but much harder to get on challenge Y.
  2. What do you think about the new “attainment” style of ranking system, where you have a fixed time but need to attain more to get a higher rank?
  3. In scenarios ‘Advanced’ and up, do you find the AI challenging? Do they spread out their products and saturate markets, forcing you to find new markets to maintain and improve profits?

That’s all for now, thanks.



There is an issue after the Update and restart. The Games gets stuck 1/2 “thru” the load process. I will send you the output log

Much better system, this makes much more sense. Good job on the update.

First time trying Mo’ Money, and it is quite difficult getting Master rating. Expert wasn’t too hard, but getting to master will be quite a challenge, that I didn’t succeed on.

After doing Mo’ Money I attempted Bottom Line. Also difficult to get to, but I managed to complete it with a couple of months to spare. I am rather enjoying this new update.

Ok, here we go, my feedback.
I just bought the game couple days ago and managed to reach the “Not for profit” mission before this update. I’m enjoying the game a lot for now.
Today i downloaded the new 0.43 and tryied “Bottom line” to see what was changed before continuing on with the more difficult one.
I played around 8 hours now in the new build.

Here is the list of thing that are worth to notice:
+++1) I really like the new mission objective, it give beginners time to relax, get comfortable with the game mechanics and slowly get their training beyond the tutorial missions, and is still challenging if u wanna get the expert level. I think is a good planned real play first mission.

++2)Performance have increased. So far i don’t have anymore random weird fps drop that force me to restart the game. Also the the selected item window in production that was all glitcy during pause now works almost smootly. Great!

-3)During the game i noticed that one of my ingedients needed the Ultraviolet curer in order to get rid of one of their side effects, but in “Bottom Line” i don’t have access in the tech tree to such machine. if i haven’t imagined that, before the update i couldn’t see requirement with machine i can’t unlock… So maybe this is a bug.,isvZruG,7yu3X3J#2

-4)I also noticed that the tooltip for upgrading the shaker has changed: now it display “Maxium shift in single shake: 0 > 1” at level 2. Probably another bug.,isvZruG,7yu3X3J#1

–5)Almost all the time, expecially with multiple resarchers/explorers, i can’t see the correct progression on the progressbar that show when i get new upgrade points. Also if i may suggest, if i’ll be able to see how many points i have in the production tab it’ll be awesome, just to let you know…

—6)Crossroad are awesome, but like many other section of paralleled production line, they jam easily. The difference is that in a case of double a pill printer, they just jump one cycle and keep on going inefficiently, but instead crossroad that feed multimixers and jams are stucked forever, until u delete them and find a way to design them in a way that don’t jam anymore. This can cripple a huge production line to death and MUST be worked out as soon as possible. I’m sorry that i can’t show u any image of this issue, but i noticed that this happen more often when u place the multimixers with output faceing the bottom left corner.
If i may suggest, in the future, try to rework crossroads with a little distribution devices, like a metal disk that pick up 2 ingredients, spin 180°, and then release the ingretients at the opposite side of the line, or make it configurable to only turn 90° left or right and create X node that distribute ingredients perpendicularly.
This is like i thought about it:

—!7)Dunno if this is a bug or i did something wrong or i can still win the mission as master at this point, but my “Bottom line” mission ended prematurely at year 2019 instead of 2025… not fun at all…,isvZruG,7yu3X3J#0

In the end, i wanna say that i like this game, i like it a lot, and i’ll look for the new updates!
Keep up the good work and thanks for read this wall of text ^^

I will post some feedback of my own later, but for now I’ll address some of what Keymaster89 said:

Definitely seems like a bug to me, if you don’t have access to the machine required, it should just say “cannot remove” the same way drugs that require a machine that you don’t have access to to upgrade say “cannot upgrade”.

By the way, if you want to display images in the forum, use the .png imgur link (obtained by clicking on the image) and use the img BBCode tag like so:


I think I noticed that in the last version too. I believe it’s an off-by-one error for all of the shifts-per-shake numbers. Probably it’s stored internally as a number 0-2 (as programmers like to do) and should have one added to it to give it the proper 1-3 value.

I noticed that one in the last version as well. And as far as the points visible in the production tab, Tim stated in a vlog that he plans to add that.

Crossroads definitely have some issues with jamming when first set up, but a lot of times they can be solved by just deleting the drug that’s causing it to jam and replacing the crossroads (still no way to delete drugs without deleting belts - get on it Tim. :P). I really like the idea of that spinning crossroads though. Instead of alternating between the two lines, it does both at once, but still at a process time of 2. If done properly, it should allow for a bit nicer behavior. I’m not sure if it really fits the Big Pharma aesthetic, but it’s a nice idea.

I had that happen to me as well. It looks like any time you get to Expert rank it gives you the “mission completed” screen, but I’m pretty sure you can keep going. I’m not sure if it properly lets you get Master rank after that point, haven’t gotten that far yet. This may be intended behavior, but in that case, why does it not display that message after you complete the first rank? Ideally it should probably only display that message after your time runs out or you reach Master rank.

I’ve been seeing a lot of people complain about this, but the thing is getting value back from a drug midproduction with a click doesn’t fit the mechanics. The solution is to stop adding ingredients and let the line run down on it’s own before you change things, recovering at least some of the sunk value. You can move machines as the last ingredient moves past them.

I said nothing about getting back the value of the drug. I fully expect to get 0% of the drug’s value back. What I want is to not have to spend an additional $50-$150 per drug and waste my time deleting the belt that it’s on and replacing it. As it is, the only way to remove drugs from midstream is to delete and replace the belt, and is some cases (e.g. jammed crossroads) that’s the only way to remove them at all, because the drugs won’t go downstream if they’re jammed.

I believe Tim stated in a vlog that he will add the ability to delete drugs like that, but we don’t know when yet.

When that window pops up, it has two buttons on it, one saying ‘Leave Game’ and the other saying ‘Continue’ (I think), so it’s not forcing you to leave, but letting you know what rank you have reached.
As for it not popping up when you’ve reached the first rank, that’s because you’ve already reached the first rank on that level already. If you’ve played that level previously, and completed any rank, then the game recognizes that you’ve completed it at the first rank. It doesn’t have the subsequent ranks shown as complete because it doesn’t know if you would’ve completed them.

My thoughts on the re-balancing so far:

First Impressions
The biggest change I’ve noticed is that early game profit margins are up by quite a bit; I consider it essentially “mandatory” on every mission to either start one researcher, one explorer (when your starting ingredients don’t have Agglomerator/Ioniser upgrade requirements) or three researchers, no explorers (when they do). This means my initial worker budget is always $80/$90 per day, just to prevent the company from stagnating early from a lack of product options. I’m not sure if it’s the cure value re-balance or the fact that the AI has different ingredients and therefore is directly competing less (or both), but that initial $100 per day profit margin feels much easier to obtain. Either way, I’m able to get to the early-game sweet spot of 2 explorers, 3 researchers after only three or four product lines and still be profitable, if only by the skin of my teeth on Advanced missions.

I’m noticing a lot less cases of early tier-1/tier-2 cures having their cure’s active strength sitting right in the middle of their side-effects (which I assume is part of the cure re-balance, though maybe I’ve just been lucky so far). It’s definitely contributing to the increase in early-game wiggle room, and in combination with the other changes is making the analyzer a much better early-game investment. Before, the analyzer was only useful for tweaking your tier 3/4 products simply because, for most tier 1/2 cures, the benefits were minor and outweighed by the ~$60/day processing and materials cost of discovering their peak concentrations, especially when 9 times out of 10 you were going to ignore the peak concentration in favor of avoiding as many side effects as possible anyhow. Now, when you have a tier 2 cure with no active side effects in its range, finding the peak concentration can be well worth the analyzer cost for the 25% value bonus of hitting an A rating with it.

I will note, however, that upgrading the analyzer with research points is still completely worthless; why would I spend research points to reduce the action cost of one machine by $1 per day, when I will be running (at most) two of said machine at once, and usually only 50% of the time? Even the final 16 point upgrade for the evaporator/dissolver is more cost-effective, given you’ll be running around 15 to 20 of those at endgame, with 100% uptime. When it comes down to it, the process cost of the analyzer is irrelevant; the real analysis cost is the ingredients and processing leading up to the analyzer, meaning you can actually reduce the analysis cost more by upgrading other machines instead. It needs to be something more along the lines of refunding 5% of the total ingredient and processing cost up to that stage, per upgrade level of the analyzer.

Question Answers
Tested so far on “Bottom Line” and “Even Mo’ Money.”
I was able to get Master rank on my first attempt through “Bottom Line” with about a year to spare, which as an “advanced” player seems about right for master rank on a beginner mission; a fair bit of wiggle room there, but close enough that a bad start could potentially have crippled the run. One thing to note was that I had already built everything I needed to win the mission about halfway through the timer, and from that point on only had to tinker and wait for the objective to finish ticking up. It was somewhat relaxing and cathartic compared to the rush of Master runs in the previous update, but I get the feeling that long stretches of just waiting around for victory conditions to tick over will start to get a bit old after a few runs.

“Even Mo’ Money” was considerably tighter; my first attempt only got me about halfway to the Master rank goal, despite having 7 of 9 sections producing tier 3 or 4 cures by the end of the mission, and by that point it felt more like I was fighting my processor than the scenario itself, since having that much of the map filled really started to make my PC chug. It feels as though Master is probably still attainable in those missions, but that it’ll take more effort than it’s worth given that you’ll spent half of each attempt with the game running in a less responsive and therefore less enjoyable state, after the map has started to fill up to the brim.

Despite the late-game grind feel of Master runs, the goal-based variants for Expert and Master rank seem much more interesting than the time-based ones. “Spam loans to rush research” isn’t the dominant strategy in those missions since you are more concerned with overall efficiency, and you aren’t effectively ignoring 50% of the tech tree when shooting for master on the higher difficulties because you have more than enough time to research everything. As a perfectionist who likes to get “Master” on everything but also likes filling out tech trees, is a very welcome change. They play more like a full mission than a gimmick run, which is an improvement in my opinion.

I don’t really notice the AI much past Advanced, to be honest. From my experiences with previous versions, I’m always aware in the back of my mind that I need to keep an eye on the profit margins of each product individually in case the AI overcrowds a market and makes one dip low, but when there’s 3 AI opponents the huge collection of competing products tends to mean market crowding more or less evens out; I don’t see any strong swings back and forth in the value of any individual cure, because there’s always at least one AI in every cure market and they don’t seem to discontinue products very often. You can expect a gradual decline in value for each cure, but since they’re never going to go back up again you can just plan around that and not pay too much attention to individual AI actions.

Bugs and Fixes
The belt fixes seem to be a step in the right direction, though I’ve found a few cases where the belts prefer to move ingredients from farther up a chain in front of an output slot that’s ready to dispense, causing a bit of a slowdown where multiple 2-stroke machines are chained together, though, strangely, you seem to be able to fix those by forcing the system to get backed up a little:

Here the multi-mixer on the right is ready to output, but the the ingredient on the corner belt to its left is about to move in front of its output; it will pause one tick out of every 4, causing the entire line to run at 0.75 processes per day.

But here the belt will prefer to wait for the multi-mixer to output its ingredient before moving the ingredients on the belt, as you can see from the fact that there is no longer a gap in the corner coming out of the second ioniser in the upper left.
Perhaps it would be better if machine outputs always take precedent over belts when “claiming” a T-intersection?

The old “Research Points progress bar freezes” bug is still there, but the fix to the upper-right corner info panel is a huge breath of fresh air, after having to carefully avoid clicking machines in certain circumstances for so long.

The AI seems to be a bit better at diversifying, though I’ve noticed it seems to have problems releasing it’s poor products even after it’s developed an upgrade; on “Bottom Line” the AI was still producing an E ranked product with severe side effects at a rate of 15 per month even after it had developed a version of the same drug with no side effects, also being produced at 15 per month. It also produced a B-ranked liver disease cure at a rate of 105 per month, by itself saturating the relatively small liver disease market to 115% initially, and later to well over 250% after it had cured over half of the patients in that market but kept producing the cure at the same rate anyhow.

On “Even Mo’ Money,” Each AI started with at least one of my two starting ingredients, with all three producing either hypertension cures and antihistamines, the two cures I had access to. I’m not sure what their second starting ingredient was, but it seemed a bit odd that they all chose to directly compete with the only two things I was making if they had other options.

Overall Thoughts
In the previous version, it felt as though the only “logical” strategy to beat Master rank was to use minor loans to float with virtually no profit for the first half of the timer while building up research, then put yourself massively in debt with major loans to build your final assembly line and crank out your objective pills regardless of the actual profitability of the company as a whole. That seems to be less of the case now, given that many of the Master rank goals now require you to remain profitable for the long-haul.

With the loans feeling like much less of a requirement to success, it feels like the focus of the game has shifted away from managing your debt, and towards focusing on your product line, which is a good thing in my opinion. Loans are still very strong in the early game, perhaps even moreso than before given that you’re much more likely to get a cheap (below $100 per day payment) loan right off the bat, but it feels as though skipping out on that loan and relying on your company income is a much more valid choice.

  1. The easy and moderate challenges are slower to start because it is usually mandatory to get the aglo and ionizer right away to have any options at all. Inevitably I have to get 2 explorers and 2-3 scientists. The early game here is usually a stalemate that starts catching momentum.

The Put the Competition to Sleep and Winning by a Hair challenges are extremely dependent on how profitable you can make your starting cures and whether or not your competition oversatures the markets you get into. I always start with 2-3 exp/scientists and get a loan or two or three when I get the the agglo/ionizer, in order to get a real kickstart into the rest of the game and I think they’re awesome.

The Thicker Than Water challenge is a bit hard to get master on because you have to start researching toward the chromatograph straight away, which will at minimum take 3.5 years leaving you 1.5 years (if you research it as fast you can) of leeway. It generates a lot of monetary strain which that hard. I suppose that is a good thing.

Getting master on the easy challenges was easy. I don’t know if I like it that I now have to earn more profits on the missions operating profit challenges, it just seems a lot more grindy especially on easy where you have very few options.

  1. I think that the attainment system is very good except maybe on the easy revenue challenges because your options are extremely limited and so that means more grinding because all the cures are low income.

  2. The AIs regularly oversaturates markets and thus destroy profits in markets which I have already satured (with high quality very profitable cures). I don’t understand why it does this, because it destroys the market and benefits neither side. You have to get into the profitable cures asap and move on to the next things with exploration and research asap. It’s a very tough challenge to attain master rank on most hard challenges, the margins are very tight but I manage.

  3. feature requests / suggestions:

  1. I’m having to go into the file in order to see what the concentration range of my future level 1+ cure will be because the game doesn’t tell me before I get there. Could we the game show this information?
  2. I want to be able to paint tiles with a brush or a drag area tool, its a little tedious to drag over tiles one by one.
  3. There is no way to determine the max help rate except by looking in the game files or waiting for 100 of your product to ship and looking at the number of times it helped, after determining max strength.
  4. I would like to be able to go from the cures menu straight to the correct ingredient in the ingredients overview, instead of scrolling through the whole list until I painstakingly find it.
  5. Because I have to go between menus a lot to correlate all the information I need to plan a cure out, I spend a minute or two in total per game just looking at the overview changing animation. I would like an option to disable this animation.
  6. I’d also like it if the ingredient overview on mousing over a cure showed the full upgrade path (for as far as it’s known) and for the cures overview, when mousing over level 0 cures, to show me the info cards of the ingredients (showing concentration and cure + side effects) that have the moused over cure effect.
  7. Infinifactory and Factorio hotkeys have mirrored rotation compared to the default Q and E hotkeys, It confused the hell out of me until I changed it.
  8. I’d also like it if the game zoomed in and out toward my mouse pointer instead of the middle of the screen.
  9. I think it’s a great nuisance that you have to produce 1 cure before you see the next upgrade requirements, I don’t understand why because the upgrade requirements aren’t random and so why hide them?
  10. I would like for big numbers to have separators, 2000000 becomes 2,000,000 etc etc.
  11. Mousing over the overview buttons shows you some simple infos, like the nr of upgrade points, number of working/idle explorers/scientists, operating profit breakdown of all the companies,
  12. Mousing over the company overview button pops up a menu of all your currently in production products (those with an outlet in the wall) allowing you to click them to scroll through their wall outlets.
  13. Pause + Notify option on finishing research
  14. Right clicking the buy plot button shouldn’t work, too many accidental purchases are made while panning the camera.
  15. “Complete within 2 years” can be anywhere from 2 years 5months and 30 days to 1 years 5 months and 30 days. I think the objective window should also display months.
  16. Exploration projects maybe should show how long they take.

Haven’t had the game for very long, but I’ve completed the tutorials and the first two of the Beginner missions. I got the Expert achievement on Bottom Line and the Master on Lost My Appetite. I’m not that good a player so it might seem that these ratings are a bit easy, however, Bottom Line was interesting as it really helped me to understand the game.

I did feel very challenged on Lost My Appetite because I had to understand how to find the ingredient I needed as well as understanding how to process it. However, once I got figured out what I needed to do, I spent money like crazy, taking out loans without concern since I knew that I wasn’t really worried about repaying them, just staying in business long enough to get my goal. This isn’t a bad thing however since it was a good teaching situation.

I like the attainment ranking system rather than a cut and dried “make X pills by time Y” as a singular goal.

I haven’t gotten to the Advanced scenarios yet, I’ll post about them when I get there.

Just as an overall opinion, I found the game to be very enjoyable and well structured regarding tutorials and introductory scenarios. About the only really hard thing to grasp was the use of Catalysts, I actually went back to the website and watched the fourth video tutorial again and that helped a lot. After I finished the Bottom Line scenario I thought that maybe there wasn’t that much depth to the game, but once I started Lost My Appetite I found that having to make a specific cure can be pretty challenging.

In A Game Of Margins, I was able to get the Expert win pretty easily, but it’s taking some work to get to the Master rating. The three different levels of victory are decently spread out; I feel like I reached the first level easily, getting Expert took some work, and now I’m working on getting Master. It seems to be tough but doable, just a matter of opening up enough production lines. Since I knew it would take some time, I moved on to the next scenario.

On the King of the Non-Prescriptions scenario, on my first try I spent money unlocking all the cures and didn’t realize that wasn’t going to win me the scenario, because I eventually was drowning in debt. On my second try I explored only the cures I needed and manufactured only the pills that got me towards the goal, although I did go into one other because it was cheap to make and gave me a good profit. I got a Master rating on that second try. I wouldn’t say that it was too easy, instead it was good for learning how to focus on only the cures you needed and also how to cut costs as much as possible since the first tier drugs don’t make a lot of cash. I liked the way that the victory levels were set by how quickly you achieved the goals. I could have set up more production lines for cures that weren’t part of the victory conditions, but that would have taken more time.

All in all I’m finding these two scenarios very well done for bringing someone from the Tutorials up to a more competitive level for dealing with the AI. The two scenarios contrast well with each other, in the first it seems to be the best approach to unlock everything, find all the cures and diversify. In the second (“King…”) it’s more about being as thrifty as possible, planning what to unlock, and then eking out a win without going too much into debt.

I think and update to allow 1 belt to go over or under other belts would be a great add


I just played my first round on the newest update. Seeing the new styles, I decided to start back at the beginning challenges. I started with Bottom Line, and while I do like the new system of ranking, I came very close to Master, which I achieved very easily on my first time playing the game. The AI is much better, but they are also cheating in my view of things. Even if I had utilized every space and belt spot, I could not match the amount of manufacturing ability they had. I added it up, they sold 795 cures per month. On a beginner level factory, there is nowhere near enough spots to import and export drugs for this. This lead to be being unable to compete with the sheer number of cures they made and the result was decreased value of my lesser, more potent drugs, to the mass amount of medication they were able to throw at me. This is my experience so far. I will add more as I continue playing. It’s an amazing game that I have been following since your third video blog. Great job making it a reality!

So i bought this game a while ago because i love these types of games, but I stopped playing because the challenges were too easy and i felt like i wasn’t accomplishing anything. After i saw the update about improving AI and challenges I decided to give it another go.

I jumped straight into ‘Even Mo Money’ and found myself missing the master target by quite a lot. Since your asking for feedback on specific challenges I’m going to talk about 2 that I didn’t see on the thread already. Right now, i have completed a few of the challenges at master rank and am very satisfied by how difficult they were to achieve.

I especially enjoyed ‘The Megacure’ as i had to frantically research everything to make such a high valued item in such a short time period. I completed the challenge with 2 months remaining and was barely profitable, but it worked.

I love all the changes that were made and i have noticed that some of the AI can keep up with me(somewhat) as the game progresses. The fun, challenge, and replay-ability has definitely increased significantly since i bought the game.

The only issue i have had so far is with the ‘Not For Profit’ challenge. The average cure rating of B across all products combined with the 1.8 million operating profit is surprisingly difficult especially because this challenge is an intermediate challenge and does not allow access to the lobbying research. On my current try I am only half way to the 1.8 m goal and my two highest profit products are only C+… This challenge is deffinately as hard or harder than most of the advanced challenges. Ironically though, putting this challenge under the Advanced challenges would make it somewhat easier.

Other than the ‘Not For Profit’ being too hard, i love all the changes and am really enjoying my time going through and completing all the challenges.

The early challenges have such buttery loan terms that it’s easy to keep a kind of ponzi scheme running so you’re always paying off loans with fresh loans. Capital stops being an issue pretty quickly.

I find that many of the challenges seem “samey.” I’d like to see more colorful challenges, ones that change larger assumptions about what resources are available and how you can use them. See my thread for more detail on that.

Some of the challenges are unbalanced because of random ingredient generation.

I played ‘Keep calm and carry on’, but the seed can make big difference on finish time - I placed for couple years and I still to find Antihistamine in Desert or Sub Zero regions. Restarted it couple of times and it was my starting ingredient. Second tier catalyst could end up the same way.

‘King of non-prescriptions’ had similar issue - first time I lunched, I had no starting ingredients for the challenge - after one reset I had both. In that run I finished it in two years, when I needed 4 to get Master.

Not really a fan of challenges where going for Master require playing longer rather than playing better - I feel like it’s possible to have winning layout, but the game needs to tick over the years to count as win - 2x speed is too little if I’m required to just ‘wait’. I know it’s matter of play-style/preference, but it’s feedback either way.

I’m still on early missions, so maybe more feedback later on.