Here's my version of a shotgun that uses missiles.


#1

Thanks for the idea, gunnyfreak!
I’ve seen other versions, but I discovered that you need a turnspeed > 0 in order for the bullets to split 100% of the time. If you use a value that is too large, the bullets will start turning and act like missiles. I finally settled on turnspeed = 0.1. Unfortunately the spread is apparently controlled more by the size of the target than anything else, so the bullets will spread out more if you fire at a cruiser instead of a frigate. I wish I could make it constant somehow. Any more ideas?
Also, the game engine limits num_submunitions to 6, no matter what value I give it.

[config]
unlockcost = 0
lockable = 0
armour_penetration = 41
category = "WEAPONS"
classname = "SIM_MissileModule"
cost = 136
crew_required = 14
damage = 8
decoy_release_range = 750
description = "A shotgun in space!"
fire_interval = 1000
flareuvid = 2
fuel = 750
guiname = "Shotgun"
has_decoys = 1
has_flare = 0
hitpoints = 103
icon = turret
min_range = 1
max_range = 750
missilelength = 3.0
missilespeed = 1.0
missilewidth = 1.0
name = "cruiser shotgun"
num_submunitions = 6
powerconsumed = 2.5
shield_penetration = 50
size = "CRUISER"
sound = data/sounds/explosion_destruction_fighter1.ogg
soundvolume = 1.0
submunitionslive = 1
tracking_speed = 1.0
trail_fade_time = 50
turnspeed = 0.1
turret_sprite = "turret_auto_v1"
turretsize = 12.0
warhead = EXPLOSIVE
weight = 128
slot_type = TURRET
uisortpos = 6000

[dataitems]
0 = cost,DECIMAL
1 = weight,DECIMAL
2 = hitpoints,DECIMAL
3 = powerconsumed,DECIMAL
4 = max_range,DECIMAL
5 = damage,DECIMAL
6 = fire_interval,INTEGER
7 = tracking_speed,DECIMAL
8 = shield_penetration,DECIMAL
9 = armour_penetration,DECIMAL
10 = crew_required,INTEGER
11 = min_range,DECIMAL
12 = has_decoys,BOOL
13 = missilespeed,DECIMAL

#2

hmmm

ur welcome…

im a noob in modding so im really glad 2 help

gl hf

gunny


#3

The problem with turn = 0.1 is that it’s hit rate start to really suck. You might try compensating for it with increase damage, but then it will become overpowered with target painter.


#4

Shotgun should have short range and high speed anyway, so the pellets should clear the distance before the ship can move out of the way.


#5

Well unfortunately this game just handles non turning fast missiles strangely. They just magically stop hitting for no appearance reasons.

Funny this almost looks identical to the “Ancient Jackhammer” I have in my mod.


#6

Well, to get the ‘shotgun effect’ I stick to short range so people will hardly notice the bullets turn around.

This is the version of the shotgun cannon I included in my mod months ago:

[code][config]

classname = “SIM_MissileModule”

name = “exp_frigate_reb_shotgun”
guiname = “Frigate Shotgun Cannon (Rebel)”
description = “The perfect weapon for eradicating zombie invasions as long as there’s enough ammo nearby. Don’t be so confident about its effectiveness against cruiser invasions though.”

size = “FRIGATE”
slot_type = TURRET
category = “WEAPONS”
restricted = “rebel”
uisortpos = 1150

icon = turret
turret_sprite = “turret_bull_v3”
turretsize = 8

lockable = 0
unlockcost = 0

has_flare = 0
flareuvid = 0
flaresize = 0
missilelength = 3.0
missilewidth = 1.0
trail_fade_time = 150

sound = 3xper1ment4l/data/sounds/37238_Shades_Gun_Shot_Gun_one_shot.wav
soundvolume = 0.8

cost = 41
weight = 25
hitpoints = 14

crew_required = 10
powerconsumed = 1

damage = 5
fire_interval = 400
salvo_size = 4
salvo_interval = 2780
tracking_speed = 1.1

armour_penetration = 14
shield_penetration = 22

max_range = 350
min_range = 60

has_decoys = 1
decoy_release_range = 400
missilespeed = 1.0
turnspeed = 0.2
fuel = 380

submunitionslive = 1
num_submunitions = 6

warhead = EXPLOSIVE

[dataitems]
0 = cost,DECIMAL
1 = weight,DECIMAL
2 = hitpoints,DECIMAL
3 = powerconsumed,DECIMAL
4 = max_range,DECIMAL
5 = damage,DECIMAL
6 = fire_interval,INTEGER
7 = tracking_speed,DECIMAL
8 = shield_penetration,DECIMAL
9 = armour_penetration,DECIMAL
10 = fuel,DECIMAL
11 = missilespeed,DECIMAL
12 = crew_required,INTEGER
13 = min_range,DECIMAL
14 = salvo_size,INTEGER
15 = salvo_interval,INTEGER
[/code]
It doesn’t have a crap hit rate and more or less the ‘shotgun effect’ is visible.
I see it has the same missilespeed than yours but I’m using a turnspeed of 0.2. The short range and speed avoids the ‘missiles turn around’ effect from what I see in the tests.


#7

Missile = salvo size???

I think u are mixing weapon types…

Still, i dont understand y people uses missiles instead bullets type weapons for making a shotgun. No matter how many times u try to make a shotgun with a missile weapon, it will fit much much better with a bullet type. But well, if u want a “surreal” space shotgun, the missiles are good. But if u want a “real” shotgun , u need to use bullet type weapons. The mechanics of a shotgun fits 100% with the bullet type weapon, not with the missile type weapon. Y not to use a kinetic weapon by the way?? if u like the surreal shotguns, a kinetik shotgun will be greater even than a missile shotgun lol…


#8

The problem is that visually, a missile spread is the only way to get the shotgun to look right (assuming you want it to look like scattershot). Solid rounds would just look like any other weapon.


#9

I fail to see the problem you are pointing out. If it’s what I understood…

Salvos can be used by any weapon. They aren’t a line of code that cliffski introduced only for bullet and kinnetic weaponry.

I don’t know what makes people think single shot bullet cannons makes for better shotguns than MWM I’ll try to extensively explain how both are:

You grab a bullet or a similar class weapon with fire interval ridiculously low.

You are shooting a series of bullets individually with a differential of time between shots ridiculously low. With a time low enough, people may see that the bullets come simultaneusly but what you are doing is shooting several bullets in a row. One by one. No matter what you do you’ll never be shooting them simultaneusly. The ninja turret you get by doing that is a bit odd for something that is supposed to be a shotgun (ninja turret is how I call turrets that turn really fast between shots; sometimes they turn so fast that it seems that they are “jumping”). Oh, and, when shooting, you’ll have to deal with hearing the same shooting sound several times in a row until you can hear with the last one the shotgun sound you used. Hearing that little loop at the begining of each shotgun volley can give headache to some.

Honestly, for my inner engineer, these weapons are more similar to flamethrowers, gatling guns or anything that sprays a lot of particles/bullets/whatever in a few seconds than the shotgun you wanted to do.

Now, you grab a missile weapon and give it multiple warheads (it becomes a MWM) and some serious speed (1.00 or bigger).

You’ll be shooting [size=120]simultaneously[/size] several missiles/projectiles/bullets/whatever you want to call them. With the correct turnspeed value you’ll avoid the guided shotgun bullets situation and let it spread. With all that, you’ll get faster something that looks and shots like a shotgun. Oh, and I shouldn’t forget, you’ll hear the sound of the shotgun shooting like a normal shotgun does. People say it has some drawbacks? Yes, but I can live with most of them:

Target painters help them? No problem, there are several FPS out there where laser sights misteriously improve the accuracy of the guns and in the sci-fi genre I’ve seen explanations for anything no matter how bizarre/stupid they are.

GSBs knock them off? Despite its OPness, anything with multiple warheads and a decent speed will literally get through a wall of cruisers carrying GSBs with only a couple of projectiles knocked per shot (well, spamming also gets through GSBs). If they fail to get through you need to use moar shotguns.

Smartbombs blow up their projectiles? Nobody said that smartbombs couldn’t knock off shotgun bullets.

The maximum number of simultaneous projectiles shot is too low? Okay, this is the only big flaw I see with them. I’ll only say that if anybody really wants more simultaneous warheads you’ll have to ask cliff for that.

All this explanation comes with the idea that real shotguns shoot [size=120]simultaneously[/size] several bullets that come from a single shotgun shell. As far as I know bullet weapons are nowhere close to that and is better represented with a MWM.

Everybody is free to have their opinions but would be nice if someone can give me an extensive explanation like mine of why they are better done with the bullet class rather than with missiles. I’ll keep making them MWM meanwhile.


#10

I picked missile for my because it looks cool, not particularly for any sort of realism.


#11

as it was suggested earlier, what about a closerange kinetic wep like an auto cannon? Thatd give u the shotgun-like effect!


#12

Unless you can force significant spread, it’s not going to give the right visual effect. If all the bullets are firing along the same line then it’s just another autocannon/machine gun.


#13

In the argument of realism, a typical buck shot really doesn’t spread that much.

The whole splash in a cone is really more of a video game thing.


#14

It’s quite gratuitous though :wink: Who doesn’t love a good spray of buckshot at close range? Besides, you don’t need to train your gunners so much if they only need to aim to within a few hundred meters of the target :smiley:


#15

SirJamon, believe me, if u put fireinterval = 0, u got a shotgun. The effect shoting all the bullets at once is by far more like a real shotgun than anything else. Maybe its 0.001 second between bullet and bullet, but seriously , the aspect in the game is like a real shotgun. Using missiles, u will still see the effect when they are fired and the decoys are released, as a question of taste, i dont like that effect for a shotgun.


#16

I tried using bullets out and got a rapid fire weapon (which was really cool!). I tried out the missiles and it worked much better:



You can’t really see it here but it works very well, a bunch of shellls are fired at once and the move very fast and spread out. Then- they hit their target and its just boomboomboomboomboomboomboomboom KA BOOM. I also tried using the salvo size line and it was cool, but it was energy based. Not a shotgun. Sorry Nemesis, but just try both out. It comes down to a matter of opinion and imho using missiles is more realistic because thats what shotguns are: a bunch of missiles (that aren’t self propeled, but who cares?).


#17

If u got a rapid fire weapon using bullet type weapons, u did something wrong. U can get a perfect shotgun using bullet type weapons. U got a wrong definition of a shotgun, that is a proyectile weapon that fires various bullets at once. U are not getting that definition using missiles (a single warhead that splits in more warheads), it will look cooler for u , but its far from being more like a real shotgun. As we know its a question of taste, i prefer using type bullet weapons, its more realistic to me.


#18

Now do you see it?:stuck_out_tongue:
I was saying that I tested what you seemed to be saying, and I got a weapon that:
fired bursts of ENERGY 5 at a time
so I achieved a shotgun in a sense, but it fired energy and that was the big problem for me. If we are talking about realism, we need to compare the two:

bullet-based:
-Multiple shots at a time
-shots spread out
-looks like glowing energy
-sounds like rapid-fire

missile-based:
-Multiple shots at a time
-shots spread out
-looks like bullets
-sounds like one big shot

they are pretty much the same except for looks and sound, and the missile-based shotgun’s sounds and looks are more realistic.