More module data in the UI?


#1

There are a couple of newer modules which have qualities that don’t get shown in the UI. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are salvo and salvo delay, but both of those are very, very important in deciding on weapons to use.

Can anyone think of others?


#2

Oddly enough, the fuel statistics show up for plasmas but not for missiles.


#3

if someone could explain the purpose of fuel, i’d appreciate it. as it is now, i figure if my ship is close enough to launch missiles at it, fuel doesn’t matter.


#4

Fuel is like totally senseless. The more fuel the worse the weapon becomes. Fe:

the max_range = 1000, fuel = 900 ergo the projectile will never reach wider than 900
the max_range = 1000, fuel = 2000 ergo if the projectile misses its target it will fly through space endless times and the weapon won’t shoot again till it has no more fuel and explodes

You think this is strange concerning plasma weapons? Here is another thing, missiles actually do have a turning speed, so if you have enough fuel they will come back and try again to hit the target if they missed the first time. But thats somehow buggy, they will just circulate around the ship till the fuel is out.

In easy terms, fuel determines when the projectile finally explodes if it misses its target.


#5

thank you eich for the explanation. that is totally senseless! I was often wondering why my missile launchers wouldn’t fire another missile after they reloaded. which is another contradiction: if fuel dictates when the next missile can be fired, then the reload time for missile launchers is negated and useless (unless your just outside min range and ever missile hits!!).

and i have noticed missiles attempting to try to hit a second time and fail, epically, as you described.


#6

Fuel vs range is a balance consideration. If fuel > range, then shooting at an enemy ship speeding away from you can still be a viable hit. If range > fuel, then you can shoot earlier at ships heading towards you and still hit them if they close the range. It’s a deliberate choice for them not to be the exact same value.


#7

very good to know! thank you cliffski. except I don’t like the fact that one missile has to “expire” before another shoots. I would have thought that in the 25th century, wire guided systems would have been done away with! Whops, sunk my own U-Boat.


#8

there should be three types (settings if you wish)

  1. Missles only fire when the last missel was destroyed
  2. they fire, but the one already in flight loses the tracking capabliites
  3. they alway have tracking capabliites and fire when the reload is compleate

#9

Well this sounds reasonable, but we should be true. All battles end in a face to face shootout, last man standing trench warfare. The occasions you mentioned Cliff, are in my opinion, very rare and therefore too much fuel is a real hassle. As we all know the “missiles should fire all the time and not wait” topic is an old one and you know that your fanbase is eagerly awaiting any alterations by you :wink:
Could you give a statement about turningspeed? Like I said I never saw once a missile which hit after it turned. I think this is not the real sense behind turning speed? It’s just the case that turning speed is the key to hit fast moving frigates which would otherwise outmanoeuvre the missiles?


#10

Double Post…


#11

I agree with Eich.

Missiles should be smart enough to have their own tracking system (as Jake Wedding said in his #3) and should fire as soon as the next one is loaded. Of course a new module could be created called “guided missile launcher” that would have a higher tracking speed for its “guided” bit (so its not a replica of the fast missile launcher). Unless missiles will start hitting a target after they’ve already missed (as Eich said), there is really no reason for fuel except to terminate the missile so it doesn’t carry on into infinity (part of the purpose in the first place cliffski?).


#12

The fast missile launcher already hits most of the sweetspots for fuel/speed/reload/whatever. It’s an excellent weapon in the 600-700m range, and can comfortably be used in many less optimal situations with a painter. Use those for now.

Changing the missile fire behavior would be a significant balancing headache. Some of the missile systems are already very good, you’d have to nerf them to hell and back in order to make them fair using their optimal firing time.

However, since the fuel is based on travel distance, it is almost a double penalty for the slow missiles. A fast missile takes a little over four seconds to sputter out, while a missed megaton looks like it takes somewhere around eighteen. The enemy would be doing you a favor by shooting down your missiles at that point.

I think it’s interesting that there’s a feedback loop with missiles and hitting, as it really puts the target painters into play. The dichotomy of the slower missiles is pretty severe though. The megaton in particular is so slow that the optimal DPS achieved for it is just outside of minimum range, and the max range on the weapon is the lowest of all the cruiser missile/rocket solutions. Players (if they use it at all) are using it for short range attacks… it does not need to have the highest fuel load in the game.


#13

You don’t need to change the behavior of any missile if you want to introduce a new feature into the game. Like the salvo command, which could be also used in missile modules although it was introduced along with the kinetic weapons… You could simply add a ‘keepfiring = 1’ into any module you like to activate the feature.


#14

Eich, it is possible to do that now for the missile systems? I am planning on re-balancing some module and hull stats that have been complained about; this being one of them.

I will try this when I make my other changes.


#15

Yeah you can use the salvo command, although you will have to make the missiles very fast, otherwise you wouldn’t see any effect at all ^^


#16

why would speed have to be increased?


#17

Well due to the known reasons. If a missile is so slow that the salvo_interval expires before it’s reaching it’s target you won’t see the salvo_interval. So it’s redundant. You could also leave it out, it would look like the same settings.
Because of this, the missile has to reach it’s target very fast, so that you can really notice the salvo_interval.
For clearance, fire_interval is the time between launch and next launch. The salvo_size determines how many missiles launch in each salvo_interval. FE:

salvo_interval = 5000
fire_interval = 100
salvo_size = 10

Ergo, every 100 ‘time units’ the modules launches a missile. It will launch 10 missile every 100 ‘time units’ (only every 100 IF the missile reaches it’s target). All the time it waits 5000 time units and begins the launching cycle again.
But the experience shows that missiles fire constantly after the previous missile hit it’s target. You won’t see any difference to a normal missile launcher. So I think that the salvo_interval begins to expire after the previous expried, and not after the last missile hit or launched.
So if you fire 10 missiles which need fe. totalized 10.000 time units to hit their targets you won’t see the salvo_interval ergo it’s redundant.

I hope it makes sense to you, if not just try it out then you will see it yourself ^^


#18

it makes a lot of sense Eich! thank you for the explanation, it is very appreciated. :slight_smile: