Unbeatable strategy, needs to be fixed.


#1

So I bought the game a few hours ago and have found that it is far too easy to beat, that or I have just found a strategy that makes me win every battle nearly 98% to 0%

The strategy is straight forward, I put the worst thruster on a ship, so it is slow as dirt but cheap. Then I equip good point defense vs. fighter craft, repair bots, great shields, and then pure plasma on some to take down enemy shields and pure laser on some others for when the shields are down. My ships rarely are destroyed. Fighter craft are soon destroyed before dealing enough damage that my repair bays can’t handle, missiles and guns just hit my shields, and I waltz through the opposition.

With using ships like these I was able to unlock all the assets after only a handful of battles, because I don’t have to use all my money in order to win, in fact I only have to use about 1/3 of my alloted cost, so I get between 10,000-30,000 honor points after every battle.

This strategy has yet to fail me, and so though I enjoy the game for the first hour, it is now just lame.

Please find a way to balance this out, otherwise the game is pointless if you can win every time

Edit, just had my point proven when I played online and found the most difficult battles employed this exact strategy. One strategy shouldn’t be able to beat every other, IMHO.


#2

just play challanges and get destroyed your unbeatable fleet :slight_smile:


#3

I am not trying to be rude or what not but there is a problem with your post.

1st: For the main game there should be a real challenge and there is not. Challenge aside, the game should be fun in itself and it isn’t with this strategy. What makes the speed of ships worth purchasing?

2nd: I have tried challenge, and the toughest fleets are the ones just like I said.


#4

And yet they are, in fact, beatable. I do think that the strategy is slightly OP, but it’s far from unbeatable. In fact, burst lasers are far superior to plasma in every way but range. Building to wreck plasma is pretty doable.

The single player scenarios are woefully lacking though, I do agree. Any number of good strategies will obliterate all of them, it doesn’t even require spamming this particular one.


#5

It isn’t unbeatable, but there is a bias towards slow plasma/beam ships. Plasma is a pretty unbalanced weapon.


#6

I found the scenarios more of a tutorial for the online challenges. I coasted through them with little difficulty as well.


#7

So having more time with the game this is what I found.

Yes it is not unbeatable; however, for not custom building a fleet for a specific sceniaro it is by far the best I have found. I just played through some difficult challenges (or at least they were rated difficult) I beat 5 of the 7 my first try through with using nothing but the same ship model. The two I didn’t beat, had ships as slow as mine, and with plasma cannons!

So I am not one just to complain, but rather give ideas as well.

Plasma cannons do not feel balanced, and speed feels useless to me. A possible solution is to make plasma slower, both in fire rate and speed, but maybe more accurate, that way they don’t just fly past an enemy all the time. Why would this make the plasma balanced? Because then they would be strong vs slow ships, but fast ships could avoid them more easily. Thus balancing plasma a little and then giving you more incentive to make a few fast ships instead of just an armada of slow beefy ships.

Feedback is welcome.

P.S. This strategy is unbeatable in the normal game though, haven’t lost since I have started to use it :frowning:


#8

I don’t think plasma is unbalanced. It’s slow and inaccurate. It’s got good range, but not the not the best and it’s got quite a poor minimum range. It’s got a decent DPS, but not the best. The main thing it has going for it is that it’s good against both shields and armour.

Put another way… It gets stomped by missiles, and it gets stomped by fast short range ships.

Put five engines and a bunch of cruiser lasers on a cruiser hull, then send a bunch of them with orders to engage at range 100, and you’ll see what I mean. Massive DPS and they close inside of the plasma’s minimum range very quickly. I’ve beaten plenty of plasma-dominated fleets by 100% with this approach.

There is simply no such thing as an unbeatable fleet in this game.

The single player missions are pretty easy, even on expert. There’s multiple strategies that can win each of them by 100%, using a fraction of the resources available. The real challenge comes in the challenges from other players. I do enjoy seeing just how much honour I can eke out of each single player mission (actually, this is fun for challenges too, try to beat a posted fleet using only half the spend.)


#9

topic author: stop fucking around and ask yourself: maybe you are just THAT good playing this game? first 2 weeks almost any challange was impossible for me to beat so… u r just good. And what is the point of nerfing? Nerf one weapon, there will be another BEST one; nefr that weapon, ppl will find yet another BEST weapons and strategy. so maybe just delete all weapons? THAT would be fair :smiley:


#10

I think it’s important to remember that the aim is to have fun.
I used to have to talk my mate into not playing a defensive game as the brits in company of heroes, because he had developed an unbeatable strategy. That meant he always won, but neither of us had any fun.
If you have found a particular setup combination that always wins, you can always re-play the game and try to find a different strategy.
It is 100% totally and utterly impossible to design a game that people will not develop ‘perfect’ strategies for over time. Look how many thousands of years old chess is, in many ways the most balanced game of all time, and yet there are known ‘opening moves’.

If the game is re-balanced so the weapon effectiveness changes, players will then find a different ‘winning’ strategy. I’d much rather develop the game as a ‘toolkit for fun’ where people can be entertained, then trying to hone it as a sort of e-sports high-stakes competition, where the top 1% of players enjoy the struggle, but everyone else feels left behind.
That’s my take on it, anyway :smiley:


#11

I feel too that plasma should be SLIGHTLY more accurate and have A LITTLE less fire rate and/or speed.

Because currently when I play those battle scenarios and enemies have plasma weapons, I’m all like “Oh no problem on this battle.” Because I use very long range missile bombers with as many shields as possible so my ships stay far away from the enemy ships and can take a lot of hits from those inaccurate plasma weapons and fighters are just like mosquitos to goliath’s hammer. Plasma never hits those.

If plasma was a little bit more accurate and had a little bit slower fire rate and/or speed, it would make it A BIT better over long ranges but it’s overal amount it hits and amount it misses and the damage those hit shots deal wouldn’t increase too drastically. Or the Damage Per Second which takes into account the weapon accuracy, aka hit and missed shots.

This way plasma would be more a threat to big far away ships because plasma would hit them more often but because of lowered speed and/or fire rate, the DPS from hit shots wouldn’t increase that much. Faster ships still could dodge the shots but now having speed would be a bit more important factor because if you are a slow frigate and get a lock on from a plasma cannon, you have less chances to survive those shots because less of them miss. But usually (I assume now) frigates are around 1.00 speed so the threat which this changed plasma weapons would pose to them would be only small increase.

So yeah…

Either that or just keep them as they are. :stuck_out_tongue:


#12

First of all directed to oddis, please refrain from profanity this is a forum open to all ages. I understand your point, but your point is just as easily made without profanity.

Second directed to cliffski. Yes the strategy is boring and the aim is to have fun, but I shouldn’t have to change my style in order for a game to be fun and that is my point.

I posted in hopes that my oppinion may help develope the game. Do I expect positech games to toe the line for all my hairbrained ideas; no, but as it stands there is a lot of aggreeance that plasma feels unbalanced and though there are some specific strategies that might take it down, the majority of strategies are trumped by plasma. The fact that I can beat most of the challenges online with the strategy, is not in question; nor the fact that this strategy is beatable. But it is clear some balancing issues may need to be considered.

Thanks all for your posts and feedback :slight_smile:


#13

The thing about plasma, from a design point of view, is that it occupies a special place in terms of what it can and cannot do. Its the one weapon that is balanced quite equally between armor and shield penetration, and its the only missiles style weapon that cannot be intercepted and shot down. Plasma is the reason you need to have ships that can absorb some damage.

It might be that plasma is too powerful, and needs a counter, but another way to balance it is by tweaking its requirements. Plasma already needs power, but if it was more power-hungry, that does effectively nerf it.
I like the idea that a wall of plasma is a seriously scary destructive weapon, but that the other player had to make real sacrifices in other areas to put that salvo together. Possibly right now that needs to be more emphasised.

Plus plasma tends to miss, and ignores target painting.


#14

To be honest, I think that beam lasers are the larger problem. Frigates will wreck plasma because of speed, but Cruiser beam lasers murder frigates en mass. I think that Cruiser beams need a general decrease in tracking speed, save for the specialized pulse and defense versions. Actually, Frigate beam lasers could use the same - then there’d be some reason to equip the pulse lasers as well as, or instead of, the basic beams.

And the “problem fleets” aren’t pure plasma - they’re based on plasma + beams. Which is fine, but it might cover just a tad too much because of beam tracking.


#15

I think you may be right about beam laser tracking speeds. I might nudge them down slightly for the next patch (the cruiser ones, at least)


#16

Yeah. Beam cruisers against frigates are pretty much “Cruiser wins.” Even when I have tried to make my cruisers go near 2.00 speed with max armoring/shielding and with minimal weapons.


#17

I’ve slightly recued tracking speeds of cruiser beam lasers for the next patch, which should be a nod in the right direction. I’m wary of going too far and causing an instability somewhere else.