General Race ideas

What I like in this case is irrelevant. It’s what’s disruptive that concerns me here.

There’s a key distinction between “tough” and “indestructible” that you’re overlooking. The single term “overpowered” is far too broad to accurately describe both extremes in enough detail to be useful. With what’s being innocently proposed here, we’re definitely well into the extremes.

My reaction to what Wasabi’s proposal sounded like was based largely on his somewhat vague mention of hull bonus, which I took to mean the specific Hull Intergrity bonus. I now see that I was partially incorrect.

Thanks for clarifying this. I now perceive additional game-balance problems.

Not all hull bonuses are equal. They do not all scale in a linear progression. For example, consider the (mis-)use of armor tanking. Because of the way that armor is handled in GSB, a +30% bonus to ARMORBOOST can be more potentially disruptive than a +100% bonus to SHIELDBOOST. Indeed, you could easily wind up tanking such a ship to create something that’s even worse than Tribe.

Oh, and consider the effect that a +100% bonus to SPEEDBOOST will have on the ability of enemy weapons to track you. That has a major combat benefit which deserves a hefty cost surcharge all by itself.

The indiscriminate application of 100s all across the scope of existing hull bonuses is not necessarily a wise idea.

Wasabi, I’m not saying you shouldn’t make your proposed ships strong as well as interesting. I am saying that you should consider making them distinctive and cool in ways that aren’t gonna break the game. Naturally, if any semblance of combat balance with the established core races is unimportant to you, then do as you like. All I can offer is advice. Your decision, dude.

Woa, not so fast.

There are certain bonuses which don’t bring enjoyable designs (for the one who is fighting against them) when reaching certain values. Ships with big enough armour bonus reach the realm of unkillable without the use of mods (see Brocken cruiser from scavenger). Even with a crapton of penalties you’ll have to go through the absurd armor it will have in comparison with the other ships in its category.

Some people really dislike seeing 100% hp boosts without proper penalties

And… I haven’t tested it but I think that using the costboost to benefit a ship with a 100% value would give FREE designs (-100% costboost —> 0 cost if there isn’t anything more affecting the cost after applying the costboost)

Of course, if you want to go the OP road ignore this post

EDIT: Lol, I should check before posting if there are new posts more frequently…

I have huge cost with ALL the latest -100% and -99% costboosts for my Dreadnoughts and destroyers. But I Agree with the over 50% boost weather it be positive or negative. As I tend to avoid using them unless there is a balance boost. Aka a 25% armor boost, and a -15%shield boost. Or something that is a better match. And I tend to not have armor with a positive boost over 25% to 35% as then you can get unkillable ships.

Regarding your method of setting hull bonuses directly against hull penalties, one could instead ditch some or all of the penalties but add an appropriately huge cost surcharge to the hull’s purchase price. It’s an indirect balance mechanism outside of the actual combat environment, and it helps the threat forces devote enough cash to buying ships to counter yours.

Oh, and of course you can do both to various extents.

When it comes to usage of any $BOOST value over 100%, I might raise one Spock-like eyebrow in surprise. However, I’d also check to see what the hull costs, and try to gain some insight how you intend it to be deployed and for what kinds of missions. BTW the inclusion of a text “Read Me” file with one’s own mod is a superb way to communicate exactly those sorts of thoughts to players using it. I’d be sure to make use of one - players might not always pay attention to that if it’s only posted on the forum, as it’ll eventually slide down the listings and be forgotten.

As for any use of $BOOST in +50% territory and above, with the possible sole exception of ARMORBOOST I wouldn’t necessarily outlaw it among my own designs. But i would definitely quadruple-check the performance of such a ship in battle, and determine if its purchase price is appropriate to the abilities I’ve given it. The ship’s actual value is not just the hardware embarked on board, or its cost when you sign the contract at the shipyard - it’s also the ability to fulfill the role you’ve given it in your fleet structure.

Having the modding ability to successfully translate those sorts of personal intentions to a functioning, final ship design is perhaps the key problem that all of us face.

Hey, guys, this this the General Race Ideas thread. This is just an idea that was bouncing around inside my head, excuse me if it’s OP. Nobody has an idea that is perfectly balanced and is perfect, with absolutely no need for editing.

On reflection, I agree that 100% armor/speed boosts are definitely OP, and really nothing can balance them, except maybe very low integrity. But 100% hull integrity could be balance by making the hull more expensive, so that you can only have 2 or 3 in the big scenarios, and none in little skirmishes. 100% shield boost is not that intimidating, if it balanced with something like a speed or hull penalty or maybe even nothing at all, as IMHO shields are a bit UP (take Empire). 100% cost boost is definitely a bad idea, I should have made clear that it was only what I call “functional” boosts, as in they are actually coming into play during the battle, not counting how many ships you have. Double power production seems fine to me, a laser ship would be interesting, but perhaps less armor to prevent armor tanks.

I think that a race with no specific strengths and a hull for every task is a good idea, but remember, I am entitled to my own opinion, no matter how false it may be.

That’s why we’re having this friendly discussion. Nobody here expects or demands perfection from a rough draft; far from it. Indeed, nobody here is capable of perfection on the first time around, myself most definitely included.

Those are creative concepts; I applaud them. FWIW, they roughly parallel much of my own thinking on the various ship-design bonuses. A +100% use of COSTBOOST could be quite interesting if it’s being used to compensate for the planned use of some amazing uber-gadget unique to that given race, instead of making the item itself very expensive. Or perhaps using some blend of both methods? Lots of territory here to explore.

Naturally your opinion is your own, just as my opinion is my own. I don’t think that anyone in Gratuitous Modding is going to tell you that you can’t have an opinion. But others are just as valid in pointing out areas most likely to cause friction when an opinion is ported into actual gameplay. I see no problem with that conversational give-and-take; indeed, I’d expect comments from the community.

Onward the discussion.

not to be off topic, but i got a serious feeling of deja vous when i was reading this :0

iether you wrote this exact same thing this morning or i am going crazy… i would place my bets on the crazy part, as i am currently doing damage coordinate coding (the most boring part of gsb modding) by hand in txt files :o

Sorry, old chap…I’m afraid you’ve gone crazy. [-pats you on the shoulder-]

sorry, when I wrote that post I was a bit tired and annoyed (from setting up my grandparents iPads rolls eyes)
What was going through my head was probably a bit of paranoia, like ‘OMG stop criticizing me agghhhh!!’ I was a bit stressed But yes, all the other opinions in this thread are just as valid, and I was trying to reply to those with the experience of hindsight but… it didnt come out so well.

Don’t sweat it, mate; nothing to forgive. We’re cool. [-friendly handshake-]

Again, onward the discussion.

Race Name: Intergalactic Transportation Consortium (“Smugglers”)
Theme: Modified Versions of all Race’s hulls (mainly Rebel, Federation), slimmed down and built for speed and evasion, with a focus on frigates and fighters for their agility. Fewer weapon hard-points, but many module slots. Unique and improved ship defenses, like shields, disruptor bombs, EMP, and scramblers.
Bonuses: Speed Bonus +20% to 40%; Armor Bonus -25% to -40%; Hull Integrity -5% to -15%.
Backstory/Other: The Intergalactic Transportation Consortium (ITC) is the GSB universe’s well known organization for the transport of goods, people, and anything else that may need to be taken from point A to point B with relative secrecy or to slip by law enforcement. The Consortium prides itself on the extremely efficient and successful abilities of its pilots, crew, and researchers for its reputation as the number one “go to” business when something needs to safely reach its destination.

The ITC lives by the creed “Depart, Deliver, Done” and they stick to their word. While increased danger levels require higher amounts of payment (naturally), the Consortium’s percentage of success is an astonishing 96.6% delivery rate. The level of organization, maintenance and upgrade allowances, and excellent pension and medical benefits for ITC members keeps recruitment high and packages delivered successfully and, if living, alive.

While the Smugglers do not freely and openly engage in fleet to fleet warfare, they prefer to run-deliver-run, they can hold their own against any of the known races’ fleets. Their lightning fast smuggling fighter and frigate heavy fleets can run circles around slower fleets and utilize weapons like their Frigate-sized EMP Laser, Frigate Anti-Fighter Mine Layer Pod, and Fighter Shotgun Laser Cannon to destroy enemy ships. Couple their weapons with supercharged Fighter and Frigate engines, Lightweight Deflection Armor (Low HP, but provides high Resistance), and a Frigate Camouflage Module, ITC ships can evade destruction for extended periods of time.

Even though they may be out-gunned, they are never without ship defenses as well. The ITC has developed faster reloading Frigate and Fighter Guidance Scramblers and better Missile Defenses as well as Beam Laser Disruptor, which, while horribly inaccurate, converts the energy into shield power.

However, these bonuses and technologies come with a price. Most Smuggler ships are built for speed, so they tend to have been stripped down to the hull mainframe and then rebuilt with armor kept to a minimum. ITC ships rely on their defense modules and powerful engines to avoid death and destruction. Once their systems are compromised, it doesn’t take much, Smuggler’s ships are pretty much out for the count.

I like it I like it, heck I’d be willing to code it once I get rolling on the other 3 race ships for my gunship, corvette, destroyer, dreadnought mod. I Just need someone the is good with Alliance race as the confuse the heck outa me, Pm If you are willing to mash together four ships for me of the Alliance type.

That directed at me? That’d be super cool to see it modded. Sorry though, I don’t know how to edit pictures and stuff. I like to write though. Working on more races too. Listed below are some I’ve already posted and some I have on the drawing board:

1. Reptavians (“Bird-Lizards”) [posted]
2. Polypoids (“Polypoids”) [posted]
3. Intergalactic Transportation Consortium (“Smugglers”) [posted]
4. Followers of Ch’all (“Occult”) [WiP]
5. Perceptual Electronic Assembler (“Assembly”) [WiP]
6. Aquariusian Replicates (“Clones”) [WiP]
7. SamWalt Mercenary Corporation (“Mercs”) [WiP]

well not directed toward you per-say, But I need help with the Alliance ships I have no clue how to mod them at all, and it was directed toward the modding community as a whole.

Here’s an idea that I may or may not pursue:

a bio-mechanical race that are not crewed, but the ships themselves. Each one is an entity to itself but arranged in a hive mind matrix. Could be an interesting mix, largely frigate based with one or two cruiser designs.

Module wise, I could see weak generators and weak shields, but positive stacking values. I’m considering no crew requirement at all, as each ship IS its own crew, kinda like fighters in a sense. That being said cost may play a larger role.

SHHUUUUUSSSSSHHHHHH !!!

Dang it I was going to do something like that, I just wasn’t unable to come up with a name for it. It was going to be Cruiser biased with two frigates and two fighters.

Oh well someone beat me to the punch.

truth is, i beat you both to it ^^

see my drone mod. its basicly the same idea. its in the USSN thread.

http://positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5445&start=195

Ah my “Polypoid” race idea was similar only in that the cost was negated but the pilot cost would be high (if possible coding-wise). http://www.positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6164&start=45#p46435

I didn’t ever think its a unique idea, nor do I claim to hold any rights over it. Have fun!

To speak more on this cause, I was thinking that EACH module have a crew need that is in the 0 thru 9 range. Depending on its job and then have a crew module that was renamed, and new picture into a brain like thingy. And each brain will be able to control X modules where x is equal to the number of crew. For example,

Hive mind attack frigate;
4 weapon slots 6 standard slots.
4 frig beam 2 crew each for total of 8.
1 fast shield 4 crew
1 heavy armour 0 crew
2 thrust inducers 5 crew each for total of 10
1 power centers 6 crew each for total of 12
1 control center for 36 crew points.
total crew usage is 34, but for this race it is called crew points and is basically neural pathways needed for ship control.
They would have STRONG hulls, low hitpoint high resistance armor, low strength high resistance shielding, with high powered generators, and high thrust engines. Maybe a +45% to +75% hull, with a -25% to 50% shield and armor boosts.